Low-cut tops

[DJKillaQueen]

I'm "totally hypocritical" (perhaps not totally, give me break !)

I'm "frowning upon women's empowerment" (that's unfair)

I "can't handle a bit of female flesh showing" (I already said there's plenty cleavage in the office to 'handle')

KK go back and read that first post you refer to again...I think you find it in the third person and doesn't refer to you personally at all...however I have very right to criticise the views you have...take it on the chin....and stop making something out of nothing.

I "think a low cut top unacceptable because you associate it with sex and the sex industry." (startling conclusion to jump to)

YOU drew a comparison between your colleagues attire and that of the sex industry (not me) - read what you wrote - lol.....

And yes I do think that if you think a woman wearing a low cut top is sexually provocative in itself then that is your problem, not hers. It's a perfectly valid view point to have.

I honesty wonder why some people even bother posting in a debate if they can't tolerate a different perspective from their own views. Stop whining.

[Loz]

Odyssey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> legalbeagle Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Ok. But just bear in mind there's a fine line

> > between "Baby Got Back" and mincing like a

> BeeGee.

> > I'm just saying.

>

> As true to my word today I invested in a pair of

> jeans that emphasise my shapely bits. Although

> the pitch of my voice has slightly increased this,

> I think is worth it, as I will use the jeans as a

> countermeasure to women who insist on wearing

> low-cut tops in meetings. This way, we can

> distract each other.

If that doesn't work, try cycle shorts hoicked up until the full male camel toe effect is achieved. That should make even Stevie Wonder do a double-take.

[DJKillaQueen]

Odyssey Wrote:

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> What if I was to walk into the office

> in one of those baggy jeans which hang around your

> arse revealing a substantial amount of bum

> cleavage. Would this be allowable or would the

> boss call me in for a chat?

But what you are talking about is not comparable. And something else. If a woman has large cleavage she sweats in the joins - sorry to get intimate - so there are very good reasons why women prefer low cut necklines - especially in hot weather. It's not about being sexually provocative but comfort most the time. Wearing jeans below the bum on the other hand would never be comfortable and absolutely provocative.

[Smeltz]

to be fair DJKQ telling someone to stop whinning for having their own view that is not the same as yours (whether they've taken it as a personal attack and whether you did or didnt intend it in that manner) is not really in the spirit of a good "debate" now is it?

A bit of respect for others might be considered perhaps? We are not all on the same page as you.

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree it isn't in the spirit but he (or she) is going on and on at me and it's a bit tiring. I'm sure no-one wants to read it either.

[giggirl]

I'm loosing the plot here. Odyessy - the lady in question is in your office, yes? Describe please. Does she have large breasts? What does she wear? Is her top low cut, see through? What? Seriously - paint me a picture.

[KalamityKel]

is the scaffolding suitable to the shape of said distraction?

[Odyssey]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> But what you are talking about is not comparable.

> And something else. If a woman has large cleavage

> she sweats in the joins - sorry to get intimate -

> so there are very good reasons why women prefer

> low cut necklines - especially in hot weather.

> It's not about being sexually provocative but

> comfort most the time. Wearing jeans below the bum

> on the other hand would never be comfortable and

> absolutely provocative.

I totally disagree. Someone who's got a large arse sweats between the crack as well so they equally need adequate ventilation, but most people who work in offices do not go around with trousers below the arse for ventilation purposes. I do believe that a woman can have adequate ventilation without revealing so much cleavage - e.g. by wearing a light blouse/shirt etc. I get very sweaty under the armpits - do you suggest I take off my shirt in the office?

I do honestly believe that most women who reveal a substantial amount of cleavage in the office do it for reasons other than comfort - i.e. to attract men (or other women).

I think KidKruger has a very valid point and is dealing with a very difficult situation at work. Maybe some constructive advice from you might help resolve the issue?

[Odyssey]

giggirl Wrote:

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> I'm loosing the plot here. Odyessy - the lady in

> question is in your office, yes? Describe please.

> Does she have large breasts? What does she wear?

> Is her top low cut, see through? What?

> Seriously - paint me a picture.

Size of breast has nothing to do with it. It is the fact of women dressing inappropriately for an office environment.

[giggirl]

Well that was unhelpful. You say this woman is inappropriate. I ask you to describe her. And that would be a no.

[Odyssey]

giggirl Wrote:

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> Well that was unhelpful. You say this woman is

> inappropriate. I ask you to describe her. And

> that would be a no.

I am not saying a particular woman is inappropriate, I am saying it is the dress which is inappropriate. I am not talking about a particular woman - this is something which has occurred many times in the past. It is not only me which finds this inappropriate but other men (and women) in the office do so too.

[DJKillaQueen]

You forget Odyseey that women are also contending with underwired bras and so on so it's a different level of discomfort to wearing jeans/ trousers......

I am one woman who prefers a low cut top to a poorly fitting blouse (something women with cleavage often find) and I am certainly not wearing that top to attract anyone and nor do most of the men I know have any problem with women dressing as such in the workplace as long as they are smart. Half the population are female I think men have no right to tell any woman what they should and shouldn't wear anyway, simply because some men can't control the way they look at women!

That's my view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm certainly not about to offer 'advice' on something I see as men dictating to women. This is not Saudi Arabia....

[Mick Mac]

For me low cut tops are a poor second to short skirts and good legs. I can be happily distracted by either in the workplace... Have never complained once.

[Odyssey]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> You forget Odyseey that women are also contending

> with underwired bras and so on so it's a different

> level of discomfort to wearing jeans/

> trousers......

>

> I am one woman who prefers a low cut top to a

> poorly fitting blouse (something women with

> cleavage often find) and I am certainly not

> wearing that top to attract anyone and nor do most

> of the men I know have any problem with women

> dressing as such in the workplace as long as they

> are smart. Half the population are female I think

> men have no right to tell any woman what they

> should and shouldn't wear anyway, simply because

> some men can't control the way they look at

> women!

>

> That's my view. We'll have to agree to disagree.

> I'm certainly not about to offer 'advice' on

> something I see as men dictating to women. This

> is not Saudi Arabia....

This is not about men dictating to women what they should wear. Indeed, I have had women come up to me and pointing out another woman's inappropriate dress. We should get away from this sexism argument which a few women bring up as their first line of defence. It is like someone saying: it is because I am black, it is because I am Jewish, it because I'm a Muslim, it's because I'm gay etc. etc.

If a woman wants to go down the pub flashing her tits I have no objection to that at all. It is merely in the office environment, where I think people (both men and women) should dress appropriately.

Why are you bringing up an extreme as an argument? No-one is saying that this is Saudi Arabia.

Yes I do think we will have to agree to disagree.

[DJKillaQueen]

But this woman is not *flashing* her tits...she's only wearing a low cut top with a bra....we don't even know what size bra she wears...

I can't see why a low cut top with a smart jacket and trousers or skirt is not appropriate for an office? Because thousands of women go to work dressed as such every day and most men and women have no problem with that. And breast size is an issue in this discussion so far (KK's clearly describes them as sitting on the table for example) and size is what determines what cleavage is visible, as larger women needed bras that support and uplift more. For me it is clearly descrimination against any women with a chest size above whatever point it is that men's eyes widen.

[woofmarkthedog]

Well..

I work in the lap dancing club "Peppermint Hippos " ( clearing glasses ) and I must say; it's the Fifty pound notes tucked into the "muff cuff" of my female co-workers thongs that I find most distracting.

You'd think the bar staff would complain too, but no " Can't see above the navel, so nowt to say me "

Like also, the whole cleavage/power dressing trip within the work place goes right over my head.

I mean, the perspex fish tank shoes ( some with a fish actually in them ) get me more

Poor fish, if they're real ( unlike most of the knockers ) then that's cruel

Proper bad, but depends where you work really

W**F

[DJKillaQueen]

LOL w**f

[katie1997]

really this works both ways (many ways) on a public forum and from reading this thread I didn't get that KidKruger cannot tolerate a different perspective, quite the opposite in fact (MY opinion of course).

odyssey asks a very pertinent (there goes that word again... tee hee) question that some constructive advice might be helpful.

this is MY personal view, I don't consider wearing a low-cut top to be 'empowering' myself .

I do think that there's a good reason to dress smartly and appropriately for whatever business you are in (this applies to men and women alike). yes by all means dress in something that makes you feel great, boosts your confidence but I would find it difficult to take someone (male or female) too seriously if I personally thought that they were dressing deliberately provocatively all the time at work.

one hot day I had to wear a hard hat, a reflective jacket and boots :-$ to go into a quarry beside a beach. I felt like a right idiot next to the skimpily dressed and the topless bathers (but company rules had to be respected).

[DJKillaQueen]

No one is disagreeing that some jobs require 'uniforms' or indeed 'safety wear' but the vein of the thread argues that a low cut top is in itself provocative (and that women should completely cover up). When asking the question why is it inappropriate? the stock answer is that the sight of any piece of cleavage is distracting. Why is it distracting and to whom? That for me is the issue. Surely the sight of the top of cleavage is not so rare that it is stopping production in thousands of offices. Yes there are aprroriate ways to dress, depending on the job and so on, but to argue that a small piece of female flesh, that lets face it, most of us pay no attention to is such a big deal.

As for KK's example, to describe someones cleavage as 'sitting on the table' would be considered as sexual descrimination by a tribunal. The womans chest size will not diminish if she wears a different top.

[katie1997]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> I agree it isn't in the spirit but he (or she) is

> going on and on at me and it's a bit tiring. I'm

> sure no-one wants to read it either.

i will admit i have got rather tired of reading this thread, kinda preferred the management speak bingo...

*lets touch base offline remembering to steer clear of the er.. low-hanging fruit*

*zzzzzz*

[tog_in_sox]

Odyssey,

I hope your seniors successfully manage to make it clear that all should adhere to a sensible dress code that exhibits professional decorum rather than decorous flesh in a "professional" manner. Perhaps a consult for all staff from a stylist might be a less conspicuous way of addressing the matter. I sympathise with your predicament.

Equally crop tops, see-thru tops, low riders, and hipsters should also be judged for suitability.

----

Claims that this exposure is to control ones temperature, comfort from constraint and degree of visible sweat staining cannot be held to be singular solutions to this over-abundance of flesh. By equal measure large bellies, arses, thighs, arms, backs should also be exposed BUT by and large they aren't. Presuming that people so challenged have no desire to display these features they usually find other ways of dressing and use various toiletry products (or don't!) to mitigate matters. Choose the colour and material of your clothing and the construction of your support more wisely and you should not "have" to reveal more than others. Professional advice should be sought since we're so often given to believe by the media that the majority of women still don't wear the correct bra for their size and shape.

[giggirl]

There's something bothering me about this whole thread and I can't put my finger on it and I've been stewing on it and I still don't know what it is but something just isn't sitting right with me! It's niggling.

[Karrie]

[Deleted] Safety reasons

[RosieH]

What Karrie said.

As a lady of the boob I can wear exactly the same top as my flat chested sisters, and I will show cleavage where they won't. My breasts are there, not a lot I can do about them. Nor would I want to - I'd rather celebrate them than wear a high-necked t-shirt / jumper, which wouldn't really give me a 50s sweater-girl look, more a matronly monobreast. And while that may make you feel slightly more comfortable in a meeting than my showing an inch or so of cleavage, I'd rather not look shit, so tough titties.

However, and I do think this is important, people should dress appropriately for the office. I've recently had to deal with this situation myself. Not specifically about cleavage - sometimes cleavage, sometimes skirts that barely cover the gusset, sometimes strappy dresses more suited to the beach showing expanses of skin, even flip flops. If your dress code is professional business wear then people should respect that and dress accordingly, and if she's really dressed inappropriately, rather than just showing a bit of cleavage, then something has to be said.

That said, have you considered that the woman in question might not actually realise? I handled it with my team by addressing the whole team together (rather than just the 2 or 3 individuals concerned), and using the hot weather as an opportunity to reestablish the office dresscode. Job done.

[tog_in_sox]

Def what Karie and Rosie said. Provided management approach this as a re-iteration of general dress code rather than singling out any individual for a quiet word then hopefully no-one should take any further offence.

As it happens my director has just reiterated the dress code for the entire IT function. Looks like he finally took except to the Hawaiians, flip flops, shredded jeans and sweat, faded T's the developers were wearing. Alas the ladies here are more robust of stature and clothing than the beauteous K and R so we've not had distracting excesses :( I really should go back and work in fashion... all that lovely tanned...whuh..oh yes, micro-minis and gussets on show, that's bad, so. Bad! Dammit! Shower!

GG were you deliberately leave that hanging statement for the leery to exploit?