Low-cut tops

[KidKruger]

DJK - I think that depends on whether you spend your time in bars and out in the park etc hunting for views of womens tits or tittilating yourslef over tabloids. if so, fair comment, for YOU.

You're pasting a lot of people with your brush there.

There's no ONE answer.

But moderation in the workplace is not unreasonable.

Swearing occurs all the time in films and in papers but we don't think that shold be in workplace.

Sex is on every programme on TV, OK for workplace too ??

[Ladymuck]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> apols for bluntness !!

> It just has to be painted the colour it is.

No! Please don't apologise...I genuinely found it very, very funny. I'm still laughing in fact. Oh dear!

*attempts to regain composure*

[DJKillaQueen]

They are not hanging out at all then. What you are areally saying is that how dare a woman have large cleavage and if she does she should dress like a nun...and by the way they would still be just as prominent.

[DJKillaQueen]

Sex is on every programme on TV, OK for workplace too ??

See now you are confusing sex with dress code which is the same BS lawyers come out with in rape trials.

What you are saying is that because a woman has cleavage and wears a low cut top she's asking for sex...

[legalbeagle]

KidKruger - I'm really interested to hear your answer to my question. I'm not having a go, I'm really not, I'm genuinely interested. I understand that you and several colleagues have noticed that the woman in question has revealing clothing on quite frequently. But what I don't understand is what the objection is - does she behave badly? Or is it simply that you feel the clothing is, itself, inappropriate?

[brum]

I think it's a fair point that there should be some degree of appropriateness shown when dressing for a work environment. Personally I don't mind at all if a lady shows off a bit of flesh however some may consider it inappropriate. The spoil sports.

[Brendan]

Well if you deconstruct the issue there are a number of things to consider. The specific dress code of the workplace and what is normally acceptable for both sexes in that field. This can differ widely obviously. Then there are the feminist issues for women and the rights not to be stigmatised for their femininity. This in turn leads to the eternal question for men of whether one can appreciate the female form without dehumanising the individual and all the further questions that brings up.

Or this chap just has something against jubblies.

[KidKruger]

I think Odyssey has raised a fair point.

It's pertinent to my workplace.

Seeing a bit of cleavage is common place in work. Including mine.

Seeing so much breast that you can see the flesh underneath the front of the bra itself (plus everything that as a consequence will spill out also) is perhaps not best suited to a business environment.

You have to bear in mind that this has been mentioned independently by several people, both male and female, so you can say they are all wrong but the fact is they feel uncomfortable seeing so much of a woman's breats exposed in an office environment. The comments have been collated and the senior is extremely anxious about how to approach this.

DJK - you seem to have an attacking style in basic discussion, who mentioned nuns, I won't be exchanging if you're going to try and just score points. Take all the points you can have them now, i don't want any points, they are all yours, help yourself ! "confusing sex with dress code" no i don't think so - I was using your comment about if something is commonplace outside of work then what is the problem inside work, so, I indicated other (in my intention, seperate) examples of behaviours which are common and 'acceptable' outside work and questioned why THOSE behaviours are not acceptable because based on your justification they should be acceptable too.

legal - "Or is it simply that you feel the clothing is, itself, inappropriate?" I have been approached by the senior and asked for my views. IMO it's a bit over the top for a non-sex industry environment.

[KidKruger]

Brendan NO, I'm not against jubblies !

well not at this present moment, hopefully I will find myself exactly in that position, towards the weekend.... ;)

[Brendan]

Well we should all have something against jubblies once in a while.

[DJKillaQueen]

lol....but just because some can't look at a low cut neckline without thinking of sex doesn't make it innapropriate. Appropriateness depends on the job/ business and where a strict dress code is required (because of a need for a 'uniform' image) companies use uniforms. A low cut top with a nice jacket and skirt/ trousers can look as smart as any outfit...but just because a women has sizeable cleavage over another shouldn't deter from the right for both of them to dress in similar outfits.

DJK - you seem to have an attacking style in basic discussion, who mentioned nuns, I won't be exchanging if you're going to try and just score points.

Another way of saying you can't debate if someone challenges your view. You clearly do confuse sex and dress code as your comments show. You only think a low cut top unacceptable because you associate it with sex and the sex industry. The woman's breasts are not falling out - she's wearing a bra. You are embellishing your view of her cleavage when in reality all she is guilty of is wearing a low cut top. Of course you are going to be challenged in that view. It's a public forum.

[Loz]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> I find it totally hypocritical that in a world

> where women often only get attention if they are

> good looking and/or sexy and are used to sell

> everything, that the moment some women empower

> themselves (usually only to feel good about

> themselves and not to seduce anybody), it's

> frowned upon. Men only have themselves to blame if

> they can't handle a bit of female flesh showing,

> because after all that IS all that is showing. Get

> a grip guys.

I don't mind the ladies flashing the flesh. Though I think it's a bit mean when they object (loudly) to me putting my head in between them and going 'wubba wubba wubba'. Spoilsports.

[DJKillaQueen]

LOL.......we might have to organise a forum jubbly meetup just for you Loz ;-)

[KidKruger]

DJK - I am exchanging with you so I don't think my ability to debate is in question all I am saying is you don't have to be aggressive. You have been fairly aggressive but I dpn't think you can demonstrate my 'not being able to debate' as a result, I am just saying you don't have to accuse and attack that's all. It's not 'another way of saying' anything, that's just the mechanism you have used to extract the meaning you want to, then attack, you don't need to do that.

stil not sure where nuns came into it but I guess that's just the way you extrapolate when 'challenging someones views'...

Challenges are fine but you seem to be taking something personally yet I have not directed anything at you personally.

Yes a bra is involved. Strangely several people don't see that fact as a mitigating factor.

My comment about sex industry is that I do not know where else you could see as much breast than that sector (or a beach, obviously).

[KidKruger]

Brendan - word.

[legalbeagle]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> legal - "Or is it simply that you feel the

> clothing is, itself, inappropriate?" I have been

> approached by the senior and asked for my views.

> IMO it's a bit over the top for a non-sex industry

> environment.

Ok I think I understand. So she shows so much flesh that it has made several people feel uncomfortable, not because she behaves unacceptably, but because they feel it is an inappropriate amount of flesh for her work environment?

It's a tricky one, because it is so subjective (unless you have a work dress code in which case it's easily dealt with). One person may not care less but another might be very offended, and your boss has to provide a comfortable working environment for all. I had a similar issue with a lawyer who regularly showed her bra, not particularly provocatively, but our boss was VERY conservative and I had to take her to one side and tell her to change the way she dressed. I didn't actually agree with him in that case, but he was the boss!

[woofmarkthedog]

Now....

Come on...

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20070529/xray_specs.jpg "Oooooo nice Bazookas..."

..everyone knows.....

"Gal's love a guy in glasses"

W**F

[DJKillaQueen]

What are you talking about KK? I may have a different style of debate to you but that's what you get in an open debate. If you then instead of simply responding to the point being made, personally attack someone by calling them aggressive - when they are no such thing then that is YOUR problem.....not mine. In fact by that attitude the only person being agressive is YOU.

Now W**F...I think ladymuck would like a pair of those glasses too >:D<.

*runs to the safety of the drawing room*

[Odyssey]

legalbeagle Wrote:

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> Ok. But just bear in mind there's a fine line

> between "Baby Got Back" and mincing like a BeeGee.

> I'm just saying.

As true to my word today I invested in a pair of jeans that emphasise my shapely bits. Although the pitch of my voice has slightly increased this, I think is worth it, as I will use the jeans as a countermeasure to women who insist on wearing low-cut tops in meetings. This way, we can distract each other.

[DJKillaQueen]

LOL...that's the spirit.....but if anything turns blue - you've cut off the blood supply because of over tightness!

[KidKruger]

DJK the aggressive tone I was referring to your use of was merely because of your strong comments which seemed to ignore what I had said and instead told me who/what I 'really' am.

I thought you were aggressive because you were telling me:

I'm "totally hypocritical" (perhaps not totally, give me break !)

I'm "frowning upon women's empowerment" (that's unfair)

I "can't handle a bit of female flesh showing" (I already said there's plenty cleavage in the office to 'handle')

That I think women "should dress like a nun" (a plain lie)

I'm "confusing sex with dress code" and some how equating this to "bullshit behaviour of lawyers in rape trials" (pretty offensive)

I'm "saying that because a woman has cleavage and wears a low cut top she's asking for sex..." (that's unfair too !)

I "think a low cut top unacceptable because you associate it with sex and the sex industry." (startling conclusion to jump to)

I am 'embellishing' the truth with my own bias. (you could assume that I guess if you wanted to)

I cannot debate because I object to the points being made by you. (i don't think debate needs to include accusations above, anyway I'm still here).

That "What you are really saying is..", Nope - my comments themselves are what I am 'actually' saying, your interpretation above is NOT what I am 'really' saying.

You make a lot of negative comments to me, not specifically about the subject at hand and the details of it, but trying to attack my motive and character. I can handle aggression, but if I choose to, and I was simply pointing out that the nature of comments like those above wasn't necessary to get your point across, obviously that's based on the assumption that, if you chose to, you could engage more politely.

But I appreciate your comment about it being a public forum and this is part of it, like you say - hearing all the above from you is "YOUR problem.....not mine".

I did not mean by referring to what I percieve as your aggression to be an attack on you, and I'm really sorry if it appeared that way.

[Brendan]

Religion, politics and tits 'ey...

[jalapeno]

AND earthquakes!

[Odyssey]

All jokes aside, I think this is a serious point. For most men in the workplace, a woman revealing a substantial amount of cleavage is very distracting. And since we are all at work to work and not to flash our bits which we should be covering up in the office, I believe that there should be some form of dress code.

I have also spoken to other colleagues about this and it really is quite embarrassing when in a meeting and you are trying to look at someone eye to eye but your gaze keeps drifting down to the cleavage. What if I was to walk into the office in one of those baggy jeans which hang around your arse revealing a substantial amount of bum cleavage. Would this be allowable or would the boss call me in for a chat? This is not about equality for women or anything like that. It is simply about what is acceptable in the office.

[Ladymuck]

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