Travellers on Peckham Rye? (Lounged)

[steveo]

binkylilyput Wrote:

>

> Welcome to my knee-jerking orgy of stupid ideas

Great name for an album that

[????]

I've checked my prejudice - and people are still talking bullshit

[Blah Blah]

Agreed Rendell. A more flexible educational solution may be the answer, which doesn't necessarily mean attending the nearest school for a few weeks at a time.

Dave, to use your own terms, you are a c ock.

[catma]

Traveller children do often have a base school which is the one where they are registered. A system of dual registration exists so information can be shared with temporary schools if the family are travelling. Not all travellers are on the road, there are several traveller communities in Peckham whose children attend school like any other child. Families often use the same schools so there is a sense of continuity/familiarity for the children and their families. Traveller children or circus children didn't feel any more disruptive in my class than any other mid year entrants really, in my experience.

[KateFord]

Police are at the site now. According to the officers they should be moved on today. Those who live nearby must have heard their generator that runs through the night and sounds like a car engine running. I won't miss that!

[mrure26]

Happy now that they are being moved on? Can't have the likes of them in East Dulwich.

[Jeremy]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is also the wider question of the value of

> education. Travelling communities don't live in

> the same constructs that we do. They have their

> own economies, and children mostly follow their

> parents into the same way of life. Their need for

> a formal education is not always going to be on a

> par with our kids

I wouldn't like to assume that the children automatically wish to continue living in the lifestyle they were born into. It's important that they have a choice... as such I'd argue that education is essential.

[peckham_ryu]

I'm feeling a bit sorry for the OP of the 'Stolen Scaffolding' thread, as it's going way OT into territory that's best covered in this thread. It's mostly comments about a suggestion I made there which some feel goes too far in casting aspersions on our visitors. I'd like to suggest that comments, flames or whatever about those views best reside here, not there. The other thread deserves sympathy for its OP, and/or helpful input.

Sadly, a number of posters are so outraged by my remarks (which by the way are strictly on topic for the scaffording thread), that they feel the need to vent that outrage without actually remarking on the more outrageous main point of the other thread. That being, some thieving scumbag has nicked a load of scaffolding. Of course I'm not saying it must have been gypsies, I am saying though that their site is one of the first places the Long Arm of the Law should look. I do get why that offends well-meaning people, but whether you're offended or not, can I suggest you get it out of your system here, and if you want to post in the other thread then do try to take it back on topic.

To clarify my views and admit prejudices on the record: gypsies are people. Some are good, some aren't, just like all other people. When it comes to the bad people in many social groups, those wrong'uns often tend to specialise in a particular class of bad things. For example, the criminal Columbian gangs over in Stockwell stick to drug related crime, with a talent for extreme violence. Gypsy criminals are known for metal theft. With the best will in the world, those are facts.

We should have faith that most people value and live by decent morals. That goes for all communities, and certainly applies to gypsies and/or travellers. (By the way, not all gypsies are travellers, and there isn't a suitable noun that pleases everyone so do try not to get worked up about it, unless you're from one of the relevant communities in which case fair enough.)

** Tin hat firmly in place ** ? Flame if you must!

[Blah Blah]

Sorry but you have brought it on yourself Peckham_Ryu. So now you hijack this thread looking for what? Sympathy for your totally unsubstantiated accusation? Scaffolding is usually alarmed for a good reason, ie, it gets stolen all the time, especially when it is not alarmed, and I would hazard a guess that those doing the stealing look exactly like scaffolders with a flatbed truck etc. Worse than that, you know you are being ridiculous.

[Jeremy]

TBH I have no idea whether travellers are especially likely to steal scaffolding/metal or not. But Ryu should know by now how this forum works... there's no way you're going to get away with this sort of generalisation.

[peckham_ryu]

?and keeping this thread strictly on topic for ED issues: which roads are now putting up the ex-Peckham Rye ex-Dulwich Hospital travellers? I noticed some posters here disgruntled with the nearer neighbours' enthusiasm for moving the travelers on. Having been fully outed as a massive cynic, I feel able to speculate that Christian charity in ED has not extended to inviting mobile homes for a couple of days' stay on the few front gardens or driveways in the neighbourhood.

Edited to add: neither looking for sympathy nor to "get away" with outspoken views, aggressive grammar, or whatever. I simply wish to discourage thread hijack elsewhere. I'm more than thick skinned enough to deal with EDF's heartfelt, robust and sometimes misguided criticism :)

[Toosmart1973]

Don't see what all the fuss is about with regard to the scaffolding being stolen, I really doubt they'd have the time what with those badly tarmacked drives and the gathering of all that lucky heather they're busy with! ;-)

[Blah Blah]

What are you on about Ryu? The thread title is about Peckham Rye, with a brief conversation about schooling. The Police are evicting the Dulwich site today. That's the end of it.

[rendelharris]

peckham_ryu Wrote:

> To clarify my views and admit prejudices on the

> record: gypsies are people. Some are good, some

> aren't, just like all other people. When it comes

> to the bad people in many social groups, those

> wrong'uns often tend to specialise in a particular

> class of bad things. For example, the criminal

> Columbian gangs over in Stockwell stick to drug

> related crime, with a talent for extreme violence.

> Gypsy criminals are known for metal theft. With

> the best will in the world, those are facts.

If there are Columbian drug gangs in Stockwell, then if there's a drug related crime it would perfectly reasonable for the police to start looking for members of those gangs. It wouldn't be reasonable for them to start suspecting every Columbian in the area and harassing them on the grounds that they're Columbians. Similarly, if the recent traveller arrivals have amongst their number people known to be metal thieves it would be reasonable for the police to go and have a word. It would not be reasonable to start harassing them simply on the grounds that they are travellers.

On a purely logical note, if I were a metal thief I would not commit my nefarious acts a few streets away from where I'd set up a camp which I'd know from experience would inevitably swiftly attract police and council attention.

[adonirum]

Can I ask, apart from those who have already stated their first-hand experience, how many posters on this thread, whether *attacking* or *defending* them, have actually personally engaged with the traveller community?

* accepted as a clumsy way of putting it*

[teddyboy23]

O

Edited January 19 by teddyboy23

[peckham_ryu]

adonirum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> how many posters on this thread ?

> have actually personally engaged

> with the traveller community?

Normal friendly neighbours is my own limited experience. Not that neighbourly exchanges over the front lawn count as "engaging the community" but I assume you're interested to know if folks think gypsies are some unknown strange group or have actually had normal interaction with some. They weren't what I would normally call 'travellers' given they lived two doors down! And I don't use slight social interaction with one family to offset my suspiciousness when certain kinds of trouble coincide with the mobile homes arriving in town.

[adonirum]

peckham_ryu, just wondering if, when people have posted here, whether they have based their contribution on things/ episodes they may have watched on T.V. for example My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding (et al) or perhaps even, let's say, Can't Pay, We'll Take It Away, and the attempted evictions from illegal sites featured on that particular programme, or whether or nor they actually know what they are talking about. My post was not directed at you in particular, but your reply is interesting.

[nunhead_man]

Well one of the little b----s threw something at me as I rode past on my bike on the way home - missed of course as he mis-estimated my speed - and my ability to turn and grab him. Mind you Dad seemed to be about to do rather more to him than I was about to

I believe that particular van is not there now

[Pierre]

As pleasurable as it has been to see yet another thread degenerate into pages of the usual suspects judging each other for being judgemental, can I go back to the OP?

The caravans are still on Peckham Rye Common, regardless of which other sites that others have been moved from (but thanks for the thread hijack). The rubbish bags are piling up, the generators are running all night and there are some track marks appearing across the grass that are only going to get worse as the weather gets wetter.

As it's a public open space, Southwark-owned common land I assume, can anything be done?

I'd like to point out again I'm not judging them as people, or their lifestyle, especially as I've worked with traveller communities in the past, I just don't think well-used public park land is a good site for them, or much good for the people who live near and use the park.

[PeckhamRose]

My police SNT officer emailed including the following:

"T.the council are in the process of removal after their assessment by Environmental heath LBS.I know how frustrating this is for the residents. However, please be assured it is in hand but takes time due to legislation"

[spider69]

peckham_ryu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ?and keeping this thread strictly on topic for ED

> issues: which roads are now putting up the

> ex-Peckham Rye ex-Dulwich Hospital travellers? I

> noticed some posters here disgruntled with the

> nearer neighbours' enthusiasm for moving the

> travelers on. Having been fully outed as a massive

> cynic, I feel able to speculate that Christian

> charity in ED has not extended to inviting mobile

> homes for a couple of days' stay on the few front

> gardens or driveways in the neighbourhood.

>

> Edited to add: neither looking for sympathy nor to

> "get away" with outspoken views, aggressive

> grammar, or whatever. I simply wish to discourage

> thread hijack elsewhere. I'm more than thick

> skinned enough to deal with EDF's heartfelt,

> robust and sometimes misguided criticism :)

Why is it not possible to check these vehicles for road tax, mot and insurance when they are parked up like this and if they do not comply tow them away?

Would show that they are liable for the same rules as the rest of us.

Or is that to simple?

[chrisbeach]

spider69 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why is it not possible to check these vehicles for

> road tax, mot and insurance when they are parked

> up like this and if they do not comply tow them

> away?

As a tow-truck company with a local yard, would you volunteer to take on these itinerant travellers and their organised activities? I think the council would struggle to find anyone brave enough.

When you get in a spot of bother and live in a caravan, you can simply move on. When you get in a spot of bother and run a company with local property, you're stuck there and vulnerable.

[spider69]

Must use the "I am a traveller" if I ever get stopped for any potential wrong deed.

Off scott free

[d.b]

Travellers are people, so there are good ones and bad ones.

This particular group on the hospital site broke through the gate into the site, stayed without permission, and dumped rubbish the first night they are there.

It's not jumping to massive conclusions that maybe we have some bad ones here...