response to enquiry re Rye Lane Cycling

[Blah Blah]

This has gone one and on since the lane was created and the council haven't listened to a single point. Now the lane is in such bad repair anyway on the kerbs that you would have to be a complete idiot to not see that the design and materials are not fit for purpose. For the record, I have had four collission with pedestrians who walked straight into my front wheel without looking. Even though I always cycle at walking pace, it did not stop the collision.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi all, I will raise all your comments with officers. I will also discuss this with my colleagues in The Lane Ward. I don't think major structural changes will be done to this cycle path until the whole site is being developed, but when the repairs are done, better delineation etc could be done.

Renata

[Nigello]

Better delineation and better polcing of offenders, please. Lots of people of all abilities (children, old people, buggy-pushers) use the pavements at the corner and not all are nimble enough to get out of the way of footpath-riding cyclists.

[taper]

I tend to cut that corner heading south. Impossible to do anything other than that most times.

[DuncanW]

If you don't cut the corner, then you cycle across the flow of pedestrian and cycle traffic who are mainly walking and cycling north/south. So following the path here can be more hazardous than cutting the corner.

Given that three cyclists were killed in London last week, if there are any available resources for 'policing of offenders' I think they may be better deployed elsewhere, thank you very much...

[titch juicy]

DuncanW Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you don't cut the corner, then you cycle across

> the flow of pedestrian and cycle traffic who are

> mainly walking and cycling north/south. So

> following the path here can be more hazardous than

> cutting the corner.

>

> Given that three cyclists were killed in London

> last week, if there are any available resources

> for 'policing of offenders' I think they may be

> better deployed elsewhere, thank you very much...

3 more!! What were the circumstances? Were they at known hotspots? Driver error? Cyclist error?

Thanks

[DuncanW]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38944964

There's some info here. One was hit by a vehicle that failed to stop afterwards and has yet to be identified (I think). Another was in a CSH lane when hit by a vehicle.

Two pedestrians were also killed in London last week.

[titch juicy]

Christ :(

[Nigello]

I fail to see how cycling - sometimes at speed - through an area of pavement that is meant for pedestrians/wheelchair users can ever be seen as the best option. There has to be another choice: Get off and walk with your cycle, but don't use the tragedy of others to justify potentially dangerous cycling involving pedestrians.

[peckhambog]

I have a lot of trouble with cyclists travelling northbound not using the empty bus lane but migrating automatically onto the southbound cycle path and expecting the southbound traffic to go into the pedestrian area.

[Blah Blah]

Nigello. A cycle lane is for cyclists to use. If the council are stupid enough to put that on a pavement with a brick colour that matches the rest of the pavement, you can hardly blame the cyclist if a pedestrain walks into them without looking can you?

[Nigello]

The cycle lane ends at the road, which is where the cyclists are meant to go. Instead, some (quite a few) cut across the pavement and over the pedestrian crossing into the "shared space" outside the library. Cyclists and pedestrians don't always mix well, especially when the former are going at speed in a confusing arena. It is just common sense and best practice, that's all (but if people want to use it to inflate their sense of victimhood, who am I to deny them that pleasure?)

[rendelharris]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The cycle lane ends at the road, which is where

> the cyclists are meant to go. Instead, some (quite

> a few) cut across the pavement and over the

> pedestrian crossing into the "shared space"

> outside the library. Cyclists and pedestrians

> don't always mix well, especially when the former

> are going at speed in a confusing arena. It is

> just common sense and best practice, that's all

> (but if people want to use it to inflate their

> sense of victimhood, who am I to deny them that

> pleasure?)

Nigello, you keep saying things that aren't the case - you never responded when it was pointed out that the plaza outside the library is not pedestrian only as you asserted. The cycle lane does not end at the road, it goes to the end of Rye Lane then curves round to the right to the puffin crossing, which is for cyclists and pedestrians alike, that's why there's a green cycle at the lights as well as a green man. They then go across to the shared plaza. You may not like the fact there's a cycle lane there but stop saying things that aren't true.

For the avoidance of any doubt, here's a picture: quite clearly the cycle lane does not "end at the road which is where cyclists are meant to go" but goes round to the crossing.

http://i.imgur.com/EOsSSJw.jpg

[taper]

I go across that junction around ten times a week for the last couple of years and I have never seen an accident between a pedestrian and cyclist. I've seen plenty on the cycle lane heading up Peckham Rye.

[Nigello]

I accept that I am wrong but maintain that few cyclists take the route intended and instead they zap across the pavement where no cycle lane exists.

Not one cyclist have I ever seen take the curvy route that you so correctly show.

Cyclists + pavements = not a good idea (unless a specific path is adhered to)

[Abe_froeman]

Taper I think the cause of that is in part that many cyclists speed up again once they are in their cycle lane. In the shared (unsegrgated) space (even all the way through Surrey canal park, cyclists give more room to and slow down for pedestrians. In the cycle lane on Rye Lane a number of them expect to be able to pass unhindered at whatever speed they choose.

I've been overtaken at great speed a number of times when cycling down there. I thinkthat's because I only cycle along that stretch at a speed where I would be able to stop without incident if a pedestrian stepped into the cycle lane.

[taper]

That may well be the case. Some people cycle like dickheads up the canal path too, which is very dangerous. But people are going so slowly over the crossing that it doesn't appear to me to be dangerous to pedestrians.

Peckham as a whole needs a cycling audit. The bit between the library and the top of Peckham Rye Park is awful. Ill thought out cycle paths, crappy road-surfaces, demented costermongers. It's the least favourite bit of my journey to work.

[binkylilyput]

I do try my best to cycle across the crossing carefully (not easy with people zig-zagging both ways both on foot and bike) and then do the sharp curve of the cycle lane to go down Rye Lane rather than cross the path....... it really is not easy at all! I find the same number of pedestrians are also on the curvy cycle path bit (either standing on the corner, walking down it or waiting to cross the road) but they are even more tricky to negotiate as I am also trying to steer round the sharp corner at the same time and have other cyclists negotiating the same spot.

It seems clear that neither pedestrians or cyclists are fully responsible (despite some posters tendency to place clear blame either way) but a poorly designed area makes it difficult and dangerous for all.

So if someone with some influence to initiate change on this (Renata?)could step on it, that would be most helpful!

[picmicnic]

binkylilyput Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It seems clear that neither pedestrians or

> cyclists are fully responsible (despite some

> posters tendency to place clear blame either way)

> but a poorly designed area makes it difficult and

> dangerous for all.

>

> So if someone with some influence to initiate

> change on this (Remata?)could step on it, that

> would be most helpful!

Agree - the current layout is poorly designed and dangerous

[Blah Blah]

The shared space areas though (the crossing, the pulse plaza, the canal path) aren't the problem, because everyone understands they are shared spaces. The problem is a designated cycle lane across a busy pedestrian area, where cyclists expect a right of way and pedestrians don't see the cycle lane. That's what doesn't work. So you either have to have a clearly designated cycle lane (different colour, on tarmac etc) or you have a the pavement as a shared space with no marked cycle lane. It's a psychological thing.

[Annasfield]

Binkylilyput is correct

That corner is ridiculous. It's often safer to cut the corner as more often than not people are stood in the cycle lane either crossing the road or coming on to it. It's a terrible design and a recipe for disaster.

I would never cut the corner if it's not safe to do so.

Similarly if you are heading north and use the path as it is intended your bike is at the wrong angle for crossing the road. You then end up blocking the access to the road for other bikes and pedestrians. It's just a really really bad design.

[rendelharris]

Agree with all the above re bad design. I'm wondering, is there any reason lights can't be offset, i.e. could the eastbound light be moved back a few yards until it was outside the Drovers? That would create a ten yard wide "pocket" when the lights were red which would avoid pedestrians and cyclists mingling on the crossing, and it would mean northbound cyclists could go straight on and across to the plaza access ramp without having to curve round to the lights (or cut across the pavement).

[christgill]

rendelharris Wrote: The cycle lane

> does not end at the road, it goes to the end of

> Rye Lane then curves round to the right to the

> puffin crossing, which is for cyclists and

> pedestrians alike, that's why there's a green

> cycle at the lights as well as a green man.

For the sake of accuracy... A Puffin crossing is a Pedestrian User Friendly (F) INtelligent crossing - if you press the button but then cross before the lights change then a detector should spot that there's nobody waiting and won't hold up road traffic unnecessarily. The crossing for pedestrians and cyclists is called a "Toucan" crossing (because two (bikes and pedestrians) can cross).

[christgill]

P.S. I'm not a crossing junkie - I remember this because it was a round on "Pointless" many moons ago...

[rendelharris]

christgill Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> P.S. I'm not a crossing junkie - I remember this

> because it was a round on "Pointless" many moons

> ago...

I am happy to confess my error to superior knowledge! Worth knowing, ta.