Fences on East Dulwich Estate -Dog Kennel Hill (Another history one!)

[Vik]

This is one that always has me thinking whenever I walk down Quorn or Pytchley Roads!

I heard years ago that the black metal fencing on the estate was made from recycled stretchers from one of the world wars? I know the estate was built in the 30's but not sure if the fences have been there as long as that.

If you look at the shape of most of them, they do look like stretchers but it could be someones over active imagination!

Anyone know if there's any truth in this one?

Vicki

[redrouge]

My friend used to live on the Dog Kennel Hill Estate and she was always told that they were ww2 stretches too and I've always taken it as fact!

[ratty]

Same as the ones on Camberwell Church St / Peckham Road, and I always heard they were stretchers too!

[Jah Lush]

I lived on the estate for three years from '87 to '90 and it's true as far as I know that they were used as stretchers during WWII.

[spadetownboy]

they certainly are stretchers, they were mentioned in an article in the es magazine about 10 years ago ,if you take the time to look carefully at them you will certainly be able to see this quite clearly,some of them have a curved underside which i presume was to raise them off the ground while others dont which i presume was to enable to slide them into the back of ambulances and other vehicles. they dont look very comfortable but mind you if you had a leg or an arm missing a comfortable stretcher was probably the last thing on your mind. the said same article also mentioned the number of uxbs scattered sround the area the most prominent one being on the site at kch, and finally it also mentioned about the air-raid shelters which were built under camberwell green, co-incidentally these were only filled in a few years ago after one of them partially collapsed.

[Ultraconsultancy]

My understanding is that this is an urban myth started by getting the cart before the horse.

These fences were designed and erected in the 60s and 70s to be used as stretchers in time of emergency, either fire or civil defence. This was a product of the same paranoia that created the much loved Protect and Survive.

Metal was scarce in both WW1 and WW2, and stretchers were made of wood and canvas with leather buckles and metal clips.

If you look closely at the 'stretchers' you will see that the thechnology in the mesh, the extruded tubes and the welding is much more modern.

The need to have a ready supply of stretchers near blocks of flats has IIRC been superceded by developments in the fire service, who now have inflatable slides like those fitted to airliners.

Of course I stand to be corrected on all of this; I was having precisely the same conversation with a chum of mine in lovely SE5 just last week, probably the same ones as you, ratty.

Ultraconsultancy

[Vik]

Thanks for that all!

I was reading somewhere recently about the Shelters at the green, they are putting some sort of memorial there for an entire wedding party that were killed when one of those shelters took a direct hit. Another awfully sad war story.

Does anyone know if the sheters on the DKH estate were ever filled in?

[Santerme]

Just come across this forum.

My Grandparents lived in Petworth House for 20 odd years and I went to DKH School, many moons ago.

There used to be an air raid shelter in the square, next a small green and bike sheds.

Between the estates there were air raid shelters all the way up the hill.

The corner of Bromar road was a bomb ruin and there was alot of damage opposite the school at the top of the hill.

We used it as a playground, slipping through the corrugated iron fence.

This is going back to the early 60's.

Opposite the estate across DKH was a cricket field and more bomb damaged area.

The stretcher fences were there when I was growing up, I remember them well and have photos somewhere I imagine.

I have not been back into the square for at least 25 years.

[reetpetite]

T

They had them on Rye Hill estate too but replaced some years ago ,we were told the same story and they are pre WW2 too. fences that is

[macroban]

Some bomb shleters were built in 1938 and pre-September 1939.

I'm not sure it applies to our local LCC estate bomb shelters.

Worth validating this.

[Santerme]

The shelter inside the square was immediately as you went through the second arch in on the left travelling from DKH along Pytchley Road and was a standard Surface Public Air Raid Shelter made of brick with a concrete slab roof.

Those in between the estates on the green (as we used to call it) were submerged except for a two tier stucture, again brick with concrete roofs.

The surface shelters were rarely used by people as they were not particularly safe, the concrete roof was in one piece and fell in if hit.

Theses shelters were designed for about 50 people.

I do not recall more shelters in the other estates, but there may have been.

The most prevalent means of protection were trench shelters dug in the parks, which were boarded or concrete lined.

For example the one in Kennington Park, which suffered a tragedy in which 104 people were killed, only about 40 were recovered, the rest are still under the park.

One of my American colleagues is interested in the Blitz/V weapons and I was discussing growing up in an area of London, which was still not, by any means, fully rebuilt from the damage caused by war.

And I was 5 in 1963 when I went to DKH, and the area was a playground paradise of bomb ruins.

Both my Grandfathers served in the First War and were ARP Wardens in the area throughout the Second and had some rather ghoulish stories of those times too!!

[plimsoul]

santerne that's great local anecdotes. a neighbour of mine (i live right next to the bromar road junction with ivnahoe) told me about the last house on the terrace of old shops on ivanhoe and how it was called 'fire' house for ages as the kids would go set fire to it when they were bored. it's now been replaced...

all the bomb hits you describe tally perfectly with the new builds that scatter that stretch around and down from the estate. funnily enough all the victorian housing stock is surviving well but the post war blocks are suffering or part destroyed...

[Santerme]

I know the row of shops you mean.

There used to be an old time shoe repair shop in that row and a Greengrocers, we called Veezies (no idea why, but grew up doing it).

I do know that my Mother left me outside that shop in my pram and went home, only for my Grandmother to ask where I was, as she had me with her when she left.

So slight panic, but it was 1958/9, and things were a little different!

I seem to recall there being a betting office nearby too, it was called Gus Ashe, I think it was bought out by Mecca subsequently.

[plimsoul]

yes, i think that my sister lives in the old betting shop! i would love to hear more, but you can tell me in a p.m. if you'd rather

[rifleman harris]

Santerme, my wife was 5 in 1963 and went to DKH as well. She used to play on the bomb ruins as well. She lived in Ivanhoe road. Maybe you knew her?

[grahambull]

Hi,

I lived in Southdown House during my childhood and the room I slept in was visited by a young ghost in uniform who used to walk straight out to the bomb shelters. I asked my dad about it and he said it was the ghost of a young man heading to the shleter that got a direct hit. on the green by Southdown House were two shelters - the first was intact and we used to play on top of it. The second, further up the green, was just the remains of the solid roof poking out from the ground - everything and everyone in it were just buried. I, too, used to play on that bomb site on the corner near the shops.We used to have bonfire night there and the fire brigade out every year.

[grahambull]

I remember the betting shop like it was yesterday! Kids used to hang about outside trying to get adults to put on bets for 'em.

[Vik]

Southdown House was demolised long ago and the 'bombsite' on the corner of Ivanhoe and Bromar is now flats, not sure if you're still around here so thought you might like to know!

I'm on Ivanhoe so if anyone wants me to take some piccies of how it is now I'd be happy to!

[Jeremy]

The flats on the corner are derelict and bricked up. The council are trying to sell the site to a developer, apparently there are plans for a mixture of townhouses and flats - according to the guy from the council who knocked on my door a couple of months ago.

[Vik]

That's the other corner I think! I was under the assuption that the bombsite house was what is now the flats and the end of the terrace?

I thought that was sold already? I remember seeing a request for planning permission a good few years back for a 5 storey block there, can't remember if it was ever approved though, anyway there are pigeons living in the roof now so they can't demolish it!

[Jeremy]

Well, the chap from the council told me they didn't have a buyer yet. Although it is possible he was making it up on the spot! I'm keen for them to do something with it, as it's right opposite my house.

Since when were we not allowed to demolish a building just because of pigeons? When mice or squirrels are nesting in a property people they get exterminated, not sure why pigeons should be different!

[Vik]

The pigeon thing was a joke!

I'd also like to see a desision made too.... as it's also opposite my house!

[Jeremy]

Hi neighbour!

[Vik]

Hello! :))

[Santerme]

grahambull Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I remember the betting shop like it was yesterday!

> Kids used to hang about outside trying to get

> adults to put on bets for 'em.

Before the betting office, there used to be bookies on Ivanhoe Road with lookouts on the corners.

My Grandfather used to get my aunt to put his bets on.

She used to get a slip of paper with his shilling bet and his code which she still remembers as OCON1.

I was searching the grey matter for the name of the shop on Pytchley Road, and recaled it just now, it was Thorneycrofts and they had a Boxer called Ming.

And the top green we used to call the Rosie Green.

Incredible what the memory drags back to the surface.