Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[Louisa]

The saddest thing about seeing the way my dearly loved childhood home of Peckham now is going to the junction of Rye Lane and the High Street, and looking up above the Blue Inc store fascia, and seeing the remarkable but decaying Jones and Higgins clock tower with the gilded clock face with J&H inbedded in the mechanism and remembering that great department store and all those childhood memories of the Christmas lights being switched on come flooding back. Happy times. Who would now believe you of you told them John Lewis and M&S had a presence along that dreary looking town centre high road? If only the big name stores could re inject and invest once more in the area, we living in ED could benefit from a great shopping experience on our doorstep. The old Woolworths store before it was ripped in two would have been an ideal retail space for a small Waitrose!

Louisa.

[annabel42]

So it is not a question of whether we want a Waitrose or M & S but whether they want us?

[Undisputedtruth]

@Louisa

The proposed channel tunnel rail link in Peckham led to Rye Lane's decline as Railtrack bought leases in the surrounding area. So of course the big retailers moved out. Once the redevelopment was defeated Railtrack then sold the leases to smaller retailers as the larger retailers were no longer interested.

Furthermore, Surrey Quays shopping opened, adding further pressures on Rye Lane.

[DJKillaQueen]

There's an MS in brixton which is only a five min drive away!

I don't have any feelings either way on adding a waitrose to the area but when people suggest it should be at the expense of iceland or the co-op then I just think snobbery is at play.

[Southerner39]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There's an MS in brixton which is only a five min

> drive away!

>

> I don't have any feelings either way on adding a

> waitrose to the area but when people suggest it

> should be at the expense of iceland or the co-op

> then I just think snobbery is at play.

I agree!

[grumpyoldman]

Am somewhat confused by the different reactions here, those wanting a big store but not on Lordship lane as they believe that it would spoil the small shops who have located there.

Then suggesting that Peckham could do with the big shops, what about all the small shops there should those go out of business for the sake of the bigger shops.

One has to be realistic about this, the reason for the decline in the high street as we know it was out of town retail parks, where you could drive and get everything one wanted in one go.

Do people remember when would could do their shopping in the local grocery store and they would deliver it to your house. Yes you paid slightly more but this was delivered which meant you did not need to drive to get the items. Butchers and backers did the same and also there were milk men who delivered.

In the modern age where people buy goods on line and have them delivered, we are again assisting the decline of shops as soon everything will be done on line. Where will we go to touch and see items before we buy, yes that?s right big warehouses in industrial parks who will then deliver?

I remember Marks and Spencer in Peckham and one has to remember it is not just a food shop, but sells clothing at the same time, if one considers this carefully it could well work with the other shops around it, but in the meantime it is not going to happen.

If there were more general shops in Lordship lane like grocers and general convenience store would people use it rather than going to the Co-ops, Sainsbury?s etc.?

The decision is yours.

[Louisa]

I may be wrong on this, but as far as I know, the building now occupied by Peacocks and Argos on Rye Lane is still owned by M&S. The shop itself was one of the very first Marks and Spencer stores in the country, and most of those early stores were bought outright as opposed to rented. If this remains the case, then surely whenever the leases come to an end if M&S really had an interest in the area they could once again open a store in the building they own.

Louisa.

[Jah Lush]

Welcome back Louisa. It's been a while. What you have said about the demise of Rye Lane is spot on and I think Undisputed Truth has nailed it too.

This thread is also beginning to make me feel rather old because I remember all those big stores on Rye Lane. Jones & Higgins especially. I'd go there with my mum when I was little. It really was rather posh. Who'd a thunk it when you like at that street now.

[herrd]

The churches are all being converted into bars. Now the cop shop a supermarket? I think that just about neatly sums up modern Britain...

[puzzled]

if james barber (the all-seeing eye, but blockedup ears) has identified a site for waitrose on lordship lane, could he please stop wibbling about and just tell us?

[Undisputedtruth]

@grumpoldman

I'm not in favour of clone towns but I do feel Rye Lane could do with a greater diversity of shops as this would cater for all kinds of shoppers and helps capture wealth within the local economy.

Rye Lane was unique because Jones & Higgins wasn't a chain store and we also had a massive Co-op. The pavements were chock-a-block with shoppers during the Christmas period.

[AlexC]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> tarafitness Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I work for John Lewis and I can safely say that

> > when space allows for a Waitrose we'll be

> straight

> > in. Unfortunately there just isn't any

>

> As much as I'd love to believe what you are

> saying, why is it the case that when the huge shop

> now occupied by sainsburys local at the plough end

> of LL went up for sale, John Lewis didn't snap it

> up quickly and pay the extra money to put their

> presence into this part of London,? They were

> obviously outbid by sainsburys who wanted the

> property more, despite having a huge store less

> than a mile down the road! And I can use examples

> of areas with smaller retail space opportunities

> have still seen waitrose and M&S open stores! This

> is why my belief is that despite actively

> entertaining the idea, they just cannot justify it

> enough to spend significant funds on bidding for

> retail space. 1/2 a mile down the road from the LL

> roundabout huge retail spaces have been up for

> rent/sale for three years plus, the lack of space

> just isn't a feasible excuse!

>

> Louisa.

I work for JL too, and digging through my emails, it looks like the 'Little Waitrose' format, which is effectively the convenience format version of the store, is generally around the 3,000sq ft size. So the Sainsbury's local spot at the Plough End of LL may or may not have been big enough offering a Little Waitrose gives you, i.e. groceries plus 'food to go' style counters, but the whole Waitrose convenience format was in it's embryonic stages when the lease for this would have come up. It's only this year the format is really going to be rolled out to get the number of shops into double figures.

[tarafitness]

annabel42 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tarafitness

> James Barberstarted this thread by saying he could

> think of a site for a Waitose or simila but did

> not want to pursueit unless he first canvassed

> reactions.

> Perhaps you could pursue this with him ?

Annabel, apologies for not replying to this, you must have been posting while I responded to another question!

If James Barber does indeed know of a suitable site I'd be only to happy to pass the details on. Like I said before I don't work in property, but I do work at Head Office and know who to contact as when I moved to ED about 18 months ago I sent an email expressing my disbelief that there wasn't a Waitrose in either ED or Herne Hill where I'd just moved from! I found it strange that Sainsbury's appeared to have the monopoly in the SE areas I knew.

I was told it was partly due to lack of space in available locations, and also a lack of larger stores. HH and ED are both very affluent areas that Waitrose would love to move into but, because of that fact, other supermarkets don't want to leave the area! Can't blame them really :-)

[DulwichDeviant]

DELETED

[VALFR59]

GIVE US A WAITROSE!!!!!!...... or a M&S it's better than nothing.. PLEASE :))

A bit boring to have to go to Beckhenam when I need a bit of festive food when I receive friends...as, sorry, people like me who are not keen on cooking by themselves all the time still exist!

I don't really mind where, in Dulwich or not too far away... and perhaps we should leave Lordshiplane available for smaller shops and not another grocery shop (like a Japonese restaurant, a French Connection shop, or whatever, but that we don't have already! Anyway, a bit more variety!)

Personally, I still think that Waitrose is the best quality of food supermarket, especially for ready/festive food... (sorry for Iceland and Sainsburys, which are so often out of stock for essential products, or full of nearly overpast products :))

OR AT LEAST, WAITROSE, if you hear me, COULD YOU START DOING HOME DELIVERY IN DULWICH AND NOT ONLY WITH OCADO, WHICH OFFERS LESS CHOICE THAN "WAITROSE ONLINE"...:(

Maybe we should ask directly Waitrose and M&S headquarters to think about our area! But I think that if it was financially interesting for them, they probably would have already opened a store here!

[tarafitness]

I might be wrong but I think Waitrose does deliver to ED now. They couldn't in the past due to the money tied up with Ocado which meant they had the inner M25 monopoly but I think they've released their hold a little... give it a go :-)

[Applespider]

WR Beckenham will indeed deliver to East Dulwich now. 2-hourly slots rather than Ocado's one hour and the website isn't as slick but it works pretty well. Their substitutions are much better when they have to make them. Oh - and the delivery slots are free if you spend ?50.

And since I also work for JL (there seems to be a few of us), it also lets me get my discount (in a roundabout way) rather than using Ocado.

[annabel42]

Waitrose delivers to me off Forest Hill Road, free of charge for orders over ?50. They have been late only once - and gave me a bottle of wine as an apology. They bring the groceries from their Beckenham store, and the drivers could not be more helpful.

There are people that are not catered for by the existing LL shops - large sizes, for example (- the boutique type shops tend to cater for small and medium sizes) - and men's clothes, as far as I know, so an M & S would be useful, unless of course smaller shops open catering for things like this. The smaller shops tend to have a narrower target market - perhaps M & S would have a wider appeal without detracting from the appeal of the independent shops - they seem to exist side by side in most other parts of London.

As has been pointed out, there is an M & S in Brixton, but for those of us who don't drive, it is more than five minutes away on a bus and quite a costly taxi ride.

Where I come from, the larger chains actually pay people who can find them sites which they subsequently purchase - I was approached by some-one on behalf of a chain to do just that - does this system not operate in the UK?

[Louisa]

AlexC Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I work for JL too, and digging through my emails,

> it looks like the 'Little Waitrose' format, which

> is effectively the convenience format version of

> the store, is generally around the 3,000sq ft

> size. So the Sainsbury's local spot at the Plough

> End of LL may or may not have been big enough

> offering a Little Waitrose gives you, i.e.

> groceries plus 'food to go' style counters, but

> the whole Waitrose convenience format was in it's

> embryonic stages when the lease for this would

> have come up. It's only this year the format is

> really going to be rolled out to get the number of

> shops into double figures.

Thanks for the welcome back Jah Lush, it's been a while! :)

I appreciate that the Little Waitrose format was in it's infancy back then, and I also understand that said retail locations must be of a certain size as tarafitness and AlexC both rightly pointed out. But my feeling is that even when opportunities have arisen for land to be bought up and/or retail spaces have become vacant (Rye Lane a good example) Waitrose and M&S have both failed to put forward a serious bid to open up a small format store. I do believe that if a supermarket really was chomping at the bit to move into a neighborhood they would do everything within their power to do so (plenty of examples of supermarkets railroading through planning and local objections to move into a potential market). I just get this feeling that the will isnt really there.. I may of course be entirely wrong!

And for the nostalgic amongst you, just a picture or two of Rye Lane in happier times for me!

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/__data/assets/image/0020/357302/jones-and-higgins-00276-640.jpg

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/__data/assets/image/0010/357184/rye-lane-00273-640.jpg

Images from www.ideal-homes.org.uk

Louisa.

[73jem]

tarafitness Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I might be wrong but I think Waitrose does deliver

> to ED now. They couldn't in the past due to the

> money tied up with Ocado which meant they had the

> inner M25 monopoly but I think they've released

> their hold a little... give it a go :-)

I would be very interested to hear from other users of the Waitrose delivery website; I recently gave it a try and found it very slow, moreover after I had ordered there was a lengthy problem with their website which meant that I could not recall my order for some time. I am surprised by this as I think that the Waitrose website has been up and running for some months and I had expected it to be glitch free by now.

Also the slots offered by Waitrose are not only longer but much more limited than Ocado which will deliver earlier and later in the day than Waitrose. I have found Ocado to be very satisfactory, the only snag is the charge.

Reluctantly I have decided to renew my annual payment for 'free' delivery with Ocado, which I had hoped to avoid this year.

[lilolils]

waitrose pls there is not one even near :))

[Undisputedtruth]

Here's the other end of Rye Lane. The funeral pocession shown was related to the Leysdown tragedy in 1912 and included a distant relative of David Beckham.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/Paulwp/Scoutfuneral600x422.jpg

[lucy68]

Waitrose please please please (or M+S). Anything is better than the useless Co-op.

[Worker]

Waitrose please. This isn't snobbery, or anti-independent shops, or anti-Iceland, it's because Co-Op is rubbish and Sainsbury's is too far away. I'll still be buying my beer and lager from Boss Man's and my veges from the place with the van parked outside 24/7.

[Louisa]

Well I make no secret of the fact I am in favour of M&S or Waitrose moving here- so it's a yes from me, but I'd hate to see Iceland sacrificed for it! I love a variety of stores, and I shop in Iceland regularly. Does anyone know what is planned for the patch of derelict land next to Dulwich hospital?

Louisa.