Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[Sue]

DagmarJ Wrote:

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> I think a Marks and Sparks similar to the one on

> the Walworth Rd or in Brixton would be great as

> both of those have small clothes sections and

> that's pretty handy.

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But because their clothes sections are small, there is practically no choice anyway, so what's the point?

If you want to shop for clothes in M&S you can easily get up to Oxford Street from ED.

[bonaome]

Please can we have a Poundland instead.

[Michael Palaeologus]

This arguement that "all big supeys kill off the indies" is somewhat simplistic.

It all depends. I can see what Val's is being badly hit by the Sainsburys as the range of outlets in the Plough area is small. People arent going to be drawn to the Plough area by the Sainsburys. It will be the same people going there for the same things. If its groceries, then they may well go to Sainsburys because it is cheaper and/or has a larger product range and/or they just prefer it. Those that prefer Vals will still go to Vals, whether this is sufficient only time will tell.

Lordship Lane is very different with an already large and diverse range of shops. These seem to co-exist with the Coop and Iceland. The only places on the Lane that are likely to be challenged significantly by M&S/Waitrose are the Coop and Iceland and probably more the former than the latter as Iceland has a different product range and demographic.

Anyway, realsitically where would it go? Iceland and the Coop might sell if the offer was good enough, maybe, or the indoor market place, if the offer was good enough.

Or Foxtons - please God!

[Keef]

And lets be honest, some of the independent shops in ED are shite.

[Dorothy]

If they were that shite they wouldn't survive on LL.

[Jacbuc]

I think the attraction of lordship lane is its independent shops. Any additional big name stores will only reduce their custom base. What a terrible shame.

[modernmum]

More chains and more supermarkets are the last thing we need. Rents will rise and all the really great independent shops that we have will disappear, and LL will be just like every other wrecked high street. I would rather see some effort to encourage more independent retailers...so No thanks.

[Fuschia]

no

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I pretty much agree with Bonaome. It would be great if the Co-op could raise its game.

[Ann]

Agree with bonahome also. I shop at Co-OP often (for a family) often, and the stock can never be guaranteed at any given moment. Definately moreso than whan it was a Somerfield's.::o

[katie1997]

James Barber Wrote:

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> How do people feel about a Waitrose or M&S TYPE

> food store on Lordship Lane - do we want one or

> not?

Thanks for seeking views on here, I'd like to add a resounding no (for same reasons given by others previously).

For all those who don't think that supermarkets affect smaller, independent shops, I disagree wholeheartedly.

I used to live in a small market town and within a decade, there remains only one (excellent) butcher and bakery on the high street. The other independent bakeries, fishmonger and greengrocer all closed down and I feel that the opening of an M&S directly on the high street (mainly food with a tiny clothes section) contributed towards that.

The Tesco nearby (but not immediately on the high street) always did good service for the people that would shop there anyway regardless of independents. The high street now consists of all the big coffee shop chains, Greggs Bakery and charity shops and has lost most, if not all, of its previous character as well as local businesses. Instead of a local greengrocers, we then had the "choice" of out of season asparagus, green beans and so on from as far afield as Kenya and Peru.

> I feel it would help the area having an anchor

> type food store BUT can see it making Lordship

> Lane busier and increasing parking pressures.

In what way do you feel it would help the area? I know its not your term but 'aspirational supermarket' made me cringe.

[Otto]

How about an anchor restaurant instead? Like attracting an amazing renowned chef to locate here? That would be in keeping with the foodie independent character of the area...

[legalbeagle]

BeccaL Wrote:

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> A friend of mine who lives on dunstans rd

> mentioned to me on 18 dec, so i'm fairly sure it's

> not related to the rumours when sains opened.

> However, I didn't get a chance to talk to her for

> long and find out her source, hence said I had

> heard rather than I knew. Legalbeagle - do you

> know any more?

BeccaL - I don't know more. I didn't ever say that Val's was closing because I don't know if it's true or not. Nisha did tell me that she had had to lay off some staff after Sainsbury's opened, but that was a little while ago now and she did not say that she was closing, just that there had been a definite drop in her trade. So I don't know where that has come from.

[Jeremy]

Otto Wrote:

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> How about an anchor restaurant instead? Like attracting an amazing renowned chef to locate here?

Which one did you have in mind? Mr Wimpy or The Colonel?

[pearl1]

No.

[thebestnameshavegone]

Why is the lib dem councillor asking these kinds of questions on here? Of course people will say yes.

The people on here are hardly representative of ED as a whole, you're asking the time-rich who have internet access if they would like a posh supermarket. Well, duh.

Will this question be posed elsewhere? Not everyone in ED reads/takes this forum seriously.

[Huguenot]

Tbnhg getting it wrong again.

If you bothered to read the thread you would discover that 'yes' currently sits just under 25%.

Think before engaging keyboard mate.

[Growlybear]

I would love to see a Waitrose or M&S in Lordship Lane. I very rarely do my food shopping in East Dulwich because I loathe the LL branch of the Co-op and try hard to avoid all branches of Sainsburys. Because I do my supermarket shopping elsewhere, I also use the other shops close to the supermarkets I use, rather than East Dulwich shops, because it is more convenient for me to do all my shopping in one location.

[Huguenot]

The most important thing is to try and get a holistic picture of the outcome of a further supermarket on LL.

It doesn't open in isolation, it has a knock-on effect on surrounding stores.

The evidence from Stalham seems incontrovertible - if you open another supermarket you'll damage the other shops - a 55% drop in footfall would be difficult to cover by most local smallholders.

Hence wanting an M&S or a Wiatrose is one thing, but do you want it so much that you want to see the other stores close? It really is an either/or situation.

For those who don't think the forum is a good place to have this discussion, plese remember that it's read by 15,000 regular users, the majority from the local area.

The 'opionated' commentators on the EDF are also most like to be highly energetic in campaigning for or against another supermarket opening.

It's manifestly the right place for a discussion.

[tortor]

Let's not get another chain supermarket. Shouldn't the focus for the council be getting more independent shop keepers into the empty shops along Lordship Lane? And shops that AREN'T estate agents??

[Gimme]

Sticking a Waitrose next to the Dulwich Hospital would just be competition for Sainsbury's. The independent food shops thrive in ED in spite of Sainsbury's. One thing you'd need to have with any supermarket site would be parking. In Balham the Sainsbury's there got planning permission only if they opened their carpark to anyone rather than just their customers. This allowed people to go to Balham High Road and to park easily, which probably benefited the shops on the High Road. So in conclusion, maybe a Waitrose would be a good thing as long it had parking which could be used by all shoppers, not just Waitrose customers.

And also a quick agreement with Huguenot... A lot of local debates about local issues seem to take place in church halls with a few people in attendance so having a debate on a forum with 15000 people using it seems much more representative.

[????]

It's not just a Oh a Waitrose - that'll increase competition, it's also that a whole load of similar profiled Retailesr apply a 'Me too' policy to certain flagship retailers ie 'if they are there we should be'. So more chains, higher rents less independendts nothing to do with their qualilty or not. Next stop Upper Street

[Huguenot]

I see your point on Balham Gimme, but...

...thinking about Balham Hight Street, I don't remember it for being a LL? I remember a Wetherspoons, an amusement arcade, a Woolworths, a McDonalds, a Boots, a WH Smith, a Greggs, (an M&S Simply Food), a Carphone Warehouse...

In a short, a bit of a dump.

Is this proposal for a store actually on LL with a carpark adjacent to the store that could benefit other independent retailers?

I can't think of a large brownfield site that meets that requirement (as there was in Balham - I lived there when they built it)

[Cityjules]

No thanks. I don't think it is needed. The joy of LL is not having hundreds of chain shops on it.

It makes it individual and different from all other high streets.

[pablogrande]

I think one of the problems with the food independents in the area is opening times. Before I had a family and got into the routine of weekly shop I'd often buy as I go when getting off the train in the evening, when many of the small food shops would be closed so the option was Sainsburys or Somerfield as was. It would be nice if we had at least one day a week of late night opening.

I really like Waitrose and it's the only supermarket I would buy meat from but I wouldn't want it on the Lane but I think it could work somewhere nearby if the objective was to bring more people into ED as they would provide parking which would allow customers to pop to the Lane but is this what is wanted.

Personally I would prefer a proper indoor food market with various independent traders where you could pop in in the evening, maybe with a couple of cafes that are open late too.