Le Chardon sold

[Jeremy]

The forum has become a farce... I understand that whenever a new business opens, the first thing their neighbours usually say to them is "don't even bother looking at the forum". It's a shame because it used to be a valuable forum. Now it's just a joke, with the same old faces spouting illogical nonsense, that you can't even argue with because THEY JUST MAKE NO BLOODY SENSE AT ALL...

[nods]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The forum has become a farce... I understand that

> whenever a new business opens, the first thing

> their neighbours usually say to them is "don't

> even bother looking at the forum". It's a shame

> because it used to be a valuable forum. Now it's

> just a joke, with the same old faces spouting

> illogical nonsense, that you can't even argue with

> because THEY JUST MAKE NO BLOODY SENSE AT ALL...

Hear hear !!!

[DaveR]

"So you are assuming that Indian Restaurants are using Cheap poor quality food produce and

a place serving Quiche to be using good quality food produce.

I would challenge you to produce the mixed grill dish for ?3.50 even with cheap produce.

Have you been to Memsaab?

Yes. Fine. how was it. ?

No. Then Shut up about it (Polite version)"

What I'm saying is if you charge ?9.95 for a dish the food cost will be about ?3, and if the dish contains lots of meat, then it will be cheap meat. If you happen to know that your favourite curry house operates an entirely different approach to pricing than every other restaurant then you can tell us, I'm sure.

Also, I'm not assuming that the tart place uses decent (and therefore comparatively expensive) ingredients but just saying that if they do their food cost percentage will be similar (and if you look at the menu many of their dishes include smoked salmon, avocado, Parma ham etc., which tends to support what I'm saying).

I would add that if they don't use decent quality stuff, I suspect they will fail fairly quickly. Despite Louisa's predictable demented ramblings* not many people are going to pay ?8.75 for a slice of quiche and salad unless it's good, and that means good ingredients - with simple food there's nowhere to hide crap produce.

So once again "Dulwich Fox" you're talking out of your rear. (Polite version)

*Unsurprising if she drinks ?3 wine.

[DulwichFox]

It's Ironic that over the years when The Fox has criticised a new food outlets he has been given stick.

As soon as The Fox praises a new outlet he still gets stick..

And I'm told its nothing personal.

Of course its personal.

I know. You don't hate Foxes.. Some of your best friends are Foxes.

DulwichFox.

[Louisa]

DaveR

Predictable response. Don't deal with the perfectly logical, just dress it up as illogical ramblings to make your point*.

My whole point was, if people are going to pay that 8.75, it may only be for a period (depending on quality), and even then, who knows if that's enough to keep such a venture viable long term? Also, my main point, how about we have more price diversity rather than assuming everyone is prepared to pay top dollar for everything.

Digging out my wine choice is funny, because if you believe you have to pay more to sit in the garden and get pissed, I can understand why you would assume 10 quid for a flan is good value.

*whatever that is, lost on me

Louisa.

[KidKruger]

Indian veggie food can be healthy, if not too much oil/salt and fresh ingredients.

But that is not what DF ate.

So it's a distraction to mention it when someone has pointed out that a plate of cheap meat is unhealthy - completely unrelated in fact.

The Indian restaurants around here, cook the same menu, as they do for most areas around the UK in fact.

They are not health-food operations, eat it every day for a month and see what state you're in.

Indian restaurants work to tight margins and to imply they use prime (or even mid-range!) meat is surely fantasy.

It would be money (from the restaurants' perspective) misspent because most customers would not recognise the difference / don't expect it in a curry.

I'm actually amazed that a plate of meat can be sold, cooked, for less that ?10.

I don't think Indian restaurants around ED get a hard time, per se, on the EDF. What I have seen though, is posters (very much including myself) rolling their eyes when another 'same old' Indian restaurant opens, selling the predictable bastardisations of easy-to-get-anywhere-else 'Indian' dishes (and I'm happy to be called 'pretentious' for it, as I have been, if that's what one has to endure for pointing out basic facts about the Indian restaurants around here). It's not being stuck-up, it is being genuinely interested in food.

Personally I believe the healthiest Indian food is at home, where you can control the content yourself.

There is a sense that anything in favour of new food outlets / different restaurants is slammed-down on the EDF, almost in a Kim Jong Il style, with no real basis in fact.

I, for one, am not a quiche or tart fan, but I find it both intruiging and exciting for the area that someone has not only thought of it but had the balls to make it happen, and I wish them all the best - whether their quiches are ?8.75 or ?85.75! I may never go there, but hope many others will, and that they enjoy it and the business sustains, why would anyone wish anything else for what must be genuine hard-fought efforts ?

We need to be realistic, I don't think any 'English' restaurants, selling meat and two veg for ?2.99, are going to be opening any time soon. ED is now a fairly well-to-do area whether we like it or not, what comes with that is interesting openings on the high street (whether it's too one's own particular taste or not).

Let's embrace the privilege of having previously unavailable options.

And soon I'll be sharing news of my non-GM, wholewheat, opening "The MoMo Shack"...

[DulwichFox]

I like Pie and Mash from Manzes..

I do not expect prime cuts of meat in the Pies ..

Just Mince meat Pie .. Mash and Liquor (Made from Flour Parsley and liquid from stewing the Eels)

Marvelous.

Of course some here would not be seen dead in a place like this.

If it was on the lane and ?15.99 for Pie and Mash they would not be able to get enough.

Only poor people and Millwall Fans eat Pie and Mash. in Manzes, Don't they. ?

Fox

[Louisa]

Indeed foxy. Hear, hear.

They just don't see the snobbery they spout. I'm sick of even trying to justify my comments on this forum. People choose to cock a deafen whenever I try to make a valid point.

Louisa.

[NewWave]

Am I right in assuming that 'Tart" just sells quiches?

What about those of us who don't eat cheese or pastry?

I doubt very much I'll ever bother going there.

It seems like a pointless one dimensional offering.

But then again I don't eat Pizza either which seems to be the staple diet of south East London or our neck of it anyway.

[KidKruger]

Here you go:

https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/yorkshire-cafe-serving-600-full-english-breakfasts-week-just-1-142304757.html

"even the homeless can get fed for next to nothing" - there you are, no 'locals being excluded by gentrification'.

[KidKruger]

"Of course some here would not be seen dead in a place like this. "

Hands up anybody who would not be seen in a pie and mash shop because you think it's beneath you (Foxy, be sure to count the responses - or will you say no responses means everyone's scared to admit it ??!!).

"If it was on the lane and ?15.99 for Pie and Mash they would not be able to get enough. "

I'm sorry, but that is total bollox !!

Louisa, shame on you for even pretending to agree with that !!

You two. I don't know...

[Sue]

It's getting worse.

ETA: They seem to live in a bubble of their own prejudices unable to see outside it.

Which would be fine if they didn't constantly post their strange world view on threads discussing local issues.

It isn't even funny any more.

If they hate East Dulwich so much, and those who live here, why don't they go and live somewhere else?

[Louisa]

Just because someone has a different opinion, they are automatically branded prejudiced. I could easily flip that argument the other way around, but oddly those above criticising wouldn't be able to recognise that evaluation of their own predujices. Funny that?

Why do people assume it's a joke? Supporting existing good value local businesses isn't a joke, it's important for the survival of our high street. Or is it funny because people who you do t agree with are saying it? Therefore it makes it easy to criticise.

Don't think anyone hates East Dulwich, just want a nice healthy mix of shops/restaurants for everyone's purse/wallet. Is that a crime?

Louisa.

[Penguin68]

Supporting existing good value local businesses isn't a joke, it's important for the survival of our high street.

Without wanting to be caught in the back-lash (some chance) - 'good value' is in itself a value judgement - something I don't want, at any price, is not going to be good value. Local businesses that address (albeit changing) local needs at an acceptable price will continue to flourish - where their market contracts sufficiently that there are not enough customers left for their offer to be a commercial success, they will fail (or will change their offer to meet changing customer needs).

It is inevitable that (unless you are able to continuously surf the zeitgeist) you will find that shops which still cater to your needs have insufficient local customers and will start to fail. That is sad but it is not 'bad'. I have waved goodbye to many shops over time in LL which I would have wished to continue, if only for reasons of sentiment, but I do recognise that I may have become a minority fan of such enterprises. LL is still commercially vibrant, business are replacing each other (and not leaving empty gaps) and that surely is a broadly good thing?

[nxjen]

When I moved to the area over 30 years ago now, there were not so many places to eat on Lordship Lane. There were the curry houses - long may they remain - Le Chardon, The Savarin (?) and Never on a Sunday (Greek), though there may have been others I've forgotten. Then gradually shops that sold other merchandise were turned into restaurants, reflecting I guess both increased disposable income and women not being expected to cook in the evenings on their return from work. The point I'm trying to make is that inexpensive places to eat are/ were not replaced by expensive places to eat, more there is a growth in the number of restaurants on Lordship Lane which reflects changing times and tastes and not just the changing demographic of East Dulwich.

[Sue]

Agree with you both, Penguin68 and nxjen.

Good posts.

[edcam]

But even taking that into consideration, it still looks awful. What the hell is that salad about?!

DulwichFox Wrote:

>

> The pictures are poor. Taken on a windows phone in

> poor light. reduced / Compressed in Flickr

> Then further reduced to fit on Forum Page.

>

> Sorry. The food was remarkable and fresh.

>

> Foxy.

[Louisa]

You people must have been looking at different pictures, that salad looked fresh and tasty to me.

Louisa.

[edcam]

I expect it does but your standards aren't very high, as we know.

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You people must have been looking at different

> pictures, that salad looked fresh and tasty to me.

>

>

> Louisa.

[Zebedee Tring]

When I was a boy, I used to walk barefoot to school when the ground was knee deep in snow and used to eat only bread and dripping three times a week if I was lucky. The highlight of my life was my annual trip to the eel and pie shop. But I was happy.

Now there are no more boozers in ED where you can meet the likes of Mad Frankie Fraser and have a punch up every Saturday night. All you have is them poncey gastro pubs and the like. What is the world coming to?

[philosophie]

Oh my goodness, this forum! Memsaab was delicious, Tart in Clapham was delicious when I went there. They are both tasty. The tarts are properly massive and you definitely get a lot for your buck, but it comes under 'treat lunch'. I can't afford to eat places like that all the time, but sometimes you fancy splashing out and indulging yourself!

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I like Pie and Mash from Manzes..

>

> I do not expect prime cuts of meat in the Pies ..

>

>

> Just Mince meat Pie .. Mash and Liquor (Made from

> Flour Parsley and liquid from stewing the Eels)

> Marvelous.

>

> https://b.zmtcdn.com/data/menus/916/6114916/96572b

> e5806d1eb37571ff5b4f5224c5.jpg

>

> Of course some here would not be seen dead in a

> place like this.

>

> If it was on the lane and ?15.99 for Pie and Mash

> they would not be able to get enough.

>

> Only poor people and Millwall Fans eat Pie and

> Mash. in Manzes, Don't they. ?

>

> Fox

I had pie and mash and liquor at Manzes in Walthamstow.

I wouldn't willingly eat it again (bleurgh).

I had oysters in Whitstable.

I wouldn't willingly eat them again (bleurgh)

I had caviare in Moscow.

I wouldn't willingly eat it again (bleurgh).

I wouldn't eat any of it again if it was five pounds or fifty pounds.

Though if I had liked any of it I would happily go back and be "seen dead" eating it.

So how does this fit in with your world view as posted above, Fox?

I am neither poverty stricken nor a Millwall fan, in case that helps.

:))

[Louisa]

More importantly why would you go for Pie n Mash in Walthamstow, when there's one in Peckham?

Louisa.

[KidKruger]

At a guess (and I am speculating here), I'd venture that Sue happened to be in Walthamstow anyway.

The arduous trip to Walthambloodystow is not merited by their local branch of Manzes alone, no matter how much one is a fan of the pie and the mash.

[DulwichFox]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I like Pie and Mash from Manzes..

> >

> > I do not expect prime cuts of meat in the Pies

> ..

> >

> >

> > Just Mince meat Pie .. Mash and Liquor (Made

> from

> > Flour Parsley and liquid from stewing the Eels)

> > Marvelous.

> >

> >

> https://b.zmtcdn.com/data/menus/916/6114916/96572b

>

> > e5806d1eb37571ff5b4f5224c5.jpg

> >

> > Of course some here would not be seen dead in

> a

> > place like this.

> >

> > If it was on the lane and ?15.99 for Pie and

> Mash

> > they would not be able to get enough.

> >

> > Only poor people and Millwall Fans eat Pie and

> > Mash. in Manzes, Don't they. ?

> >

> > Fox

>

>

> I had pie and mash and liquor at Manzes in

> Walthamstow.

>

> I wouldn't willingly eat it again (bleurgh).

>

> I had oysters in Whitstable.

>

> I wouldn't willingly eat them again (bleurgh)

>

> I had caviare in Moscow.

>

> I wouldn't willingly eat it again (bleurgh).

>

> I wouldn't eat any of it again if it was five

> pounds or fifty pounds.

>

> Though if I had liked any of it I would happily go

> back and be "seen dead" eating it.

>

> So how does this fit in with your world view as

> posted above, Fox?

>

> I am neither poverty stricken nor a Millwall fan,

> in case that helps.

>

> :))

What makes you think I was referring to You. ??? You seem to of taken this personally. :)

As you say ,, You are not poor and do not support Millwall and you do not eat Pie and Mash.

So my 'flippant' remark .

Only poor people and Millwall Fans eat Pie and Mash. in Manzes, Don't they. ?

Holds true.

Of course other people also eat Pie and Mash.

In their Tower Bridge Rd. Branch, many 'respectable' city types Booted and Suited

can be found Tucking in during the week and this Bermondsey outlet will be rammed

with Millwall fans on Match day.

Lovely Grub. Don't forget the Chilli Vivegar.

Might pop down to Peckham today.

Thursday night is Curry night .. Memsaab or Jaflong. ??

Eating out twice on the same day.

Foxy