Secondary School Allocations

[Queenie23]

This is a very good post - it spells out exactly Kingsdale's strategy. I completely understand why they did it, but those families need to remember that there are other schools out there just as good, maybe not with such an appetite for self publicity. If you think that I am one of those people who only consider a school to be good if it gets a 100% baccalaureate pass rate you are wrong - I've got three children in inner city schools (primary and secondary)and they have been in the state school system long enough for me to be completely aware of life in inner city schools!

[prickle]

Murphy, you make some very good points here. I agree that both Charter and Kingsdale have admission systems that ensure that they get the mix of pupils that they want.

My quibble with Kingsdale is that their selection method (as the lengthy debate in this thread illustrates) is far from transparent. This lack of information leads some to speculate that Kingsdale's system is less than fair. The Charter system at least is very black and white - you either live within range or not.

[murphy]

Queenie23 Wrote:

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> This is a very good post - it spells out exactly

> Kingsdale's strategy. I completely understand why

> they did it, but those families need to remember

> that there are other schools out there just as

> good, maybe not with such an appetite for self

> publicity. If you think that I am one of those

> people who only consider a school to be good if it

> gets a 100% baccalaureate pass rate you are wrong> - I've got three children in inner city schools

> (primary and secondary)and they have been in the

> state school system long enough for me to be

> completely aware of life in inner city schools!

You did mention that Kigsdale only had a 4% pass rate for the baccalaureate which although true is a bit unfair. Over 4 years 5 A-C incl Eng & Maths has gone from 27% to 59%, with the intake they now have I am sure the Bacc. rate will improve considerably over the next few years. There is always a big time lag with the turnaround of a school and the results as you have to wait for the new kids to progress through the school.

By the way you also mention Kingsdale's "appetite for self-publicity" - I think that is a big plus point, if other schools out there are just as good then they should shout about their progress and achievements.

[Queenie23]

Yes, I mentioned that to emphasise my point that they are somewhat economical with the truth and referring to their appetite for self publicity is because I feel because they shout the loudest people think that they are the only decent school around! That was all I was saying - Kingsdale is a good school, but there are others equally (If not better) than them. But I find middle class parents can be like sheep - safety in numbers.

[emmaailes]

Hi all,

My name is Emma Ailes, and I am a reporter at the Southwark News.

The paper is running a feature this week on secondary school allocations, and we are keen to talk to Dulwich parents about their experience of the process this year, especially if you have been left without any of your choices.

I can be contacted on 0207 231 5258 or [email protected] - please do also pass this on to anyone else you know who is struggling with securing a place for their child.

I am working to a deadline of the end of tomorrow, so it would be great to hear from anyone who is interested by tomorrow lunchtime.

Many thanks in advance,

Emma

[Curmudgeon]

BB100 Wrote:

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> > >> The money comes from renting out the Pod and

> > hall

> > > at the weekends. The BBC used it last year to

> > film

> > > Question Time. The Head also earns money from

> > > architects and engineering students visiting

> > his

> > > award-winning building who come on a regular

> > > basis.

> >

Question time were surely only there once as they travel around

Renting out the hall is laudable

And engineers and architects paying for visits? Really?

I'm sorry I'm not sure I actually buy that

[Debi]

I can assure you that we regularly hear of groups coming from all across the world to visit Kingsdale (a delegation from Korea being a recent example) and this is a significant source of income for the school.

This article goes some way to explain why.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/7658278/The-future-of-schools.html

[Ma]

Dear All,

Can you help?

I have devised a questionnaire that I would like todistribute to capture the issues that parents encountered throughout the primary and secondary school transfer process as part of my dissertation.

Would anyone kindly like to assist? if so, please private message me your email address. It will take approximately 15 minutes to complete.

This will help me greatly.

Thank you much,

MA

[prickle]

That takes me back! Kingsdale's rebuild was in the halcyon days of New Labour. My brother was in the team that worked on the rebuild of the school and the project was based on the premise that architecture could change the failing school ? a sort of experiment, clearly one that has worked.

It's the Coalition's shame that even with the evidence from the success of schools like Kingsdale where improvement in the built environment has had such a positive impact, the BSF has been canned. Shame on Mr Gove.

[Curmudgeon]

Debi Wrote:

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> I can assure you that we regularly hear of groups

> coming from all across the world to visit

> Kingsdale (a delegation from Korea being a recent

> example) and this is a significant source of

> income for the school.

>

> This article goes some way to explain why.

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/7658278/The-fut

> ure-of-schools.html

they pay? really?

My issue with Kingsdale, and believe me I would send my children there with no qualms at all, is the lack of transparency over the scholarship offering and the funding of it - I think it is important to provide clarity on these - I think that architects and engineers and foreign delegations do visit schools - but I don't think that they pay for it - it's community PR surely?

[Msgee]

just goes to show- there just aren't enough co-ed comps in south east London, and there's evidently a huge demand- ie for non-Harris, non-single sex, non-denominational schools...

[EDmummy]

It is a minefield which many parents feel overwhelmed by. I would personally appreciate tours of the schools for children as well as adults in the Easter term to allow as much preparation as possible (as happened when I was in school). Allowing meet and greets in the month before application is just not sufficient. I am probably alone in being a parent of a Yr 5 who didn't go to last October's open days (head in the sand) and am feeling completely out of my depth. I just don't see any 'choice' for parents in the system which we are led to believe is the case.

[Fuschia]

BB100 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Fuschia Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > BB100 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > >> The money comes from renting out the Pod and

> > hall

> > > at the weekends. The BBC used it last year to

> > film

> > > Question Time. The Head also earns money from

> > > architects and engineering students visiting

> > his

> > > award-winning building who come on a regular

> > > basis.

> >

> > WEll, all of that IS part of the school budget.

> > But a school is at liberty to provide

> additional

> > tuition if it wants to and can afford it

>

> I was making the point that the money is not being

> pinced from other parts of the budget

Well, it is, because most schools have income from lettings, for instance, and it is considered part of the school's income and used to offset overall spending. If the scholarships didn't exist, the lettings income would still be there and the school could spend more on something else. No problem with scholarships per se, but let's be correct about how something like that fits into the school budget.

[Debi]

Spend more on something else? Like small class sizes, subsidised transport system, Saturday school, highly subsidised trips of a lifetime? Because they do all that too. I'm not sure what is being criticised here.

[Fuschia]

Debi Wrote:

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> Spend more on something else? Like small class

> sizes, subsidised transport system, Saturday

> school, highly subsidised trips of a lifetime?

> Because they do all that too. I'm not sure what

> is being criticised here.

Nothing in particulAR. The scholarships are a very clever policy to attract middle class families. Just please don't say the money doesn't come out of the aschool budget, because it does.

I speak as a pedantic school business manager!

[Msgee]

'The scholarships are a very clever policy to attract middle class families'

not sure about this. I think that when the scholarships were introduced, they wanted to attract families full stop with the free tutition, rather than be fourth and fifth choice on everyone's list. And I think, while you can argue that music scholarships select a lot of middle class kids (ie those whose parents can afford to stump up for lessons), you can't say the same of sport

as for Kingsdale spouting propaganda- I think that most of the positive KD stuff comes from parents. I'm not aware of the school publicising itself- not like the Harris Academies, for example

[westof]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> I can only assume that the allocation of

> scholarship places from the waiting list must be

> according to some score ,the person with the

> highest aptitude ( though how one measures

> aptitude as opposed to attainment I don't know ..

> ) must get the next place .

>

> But ( I'm sure to most people's relief ) I'm

> giving up the struggle to understand it now .

I had the impression from last year that the scholarship places - like the general admission - were randomly allocated.

They did have a scholarship waiting list and a general waiting list - if you had a scholarship you were on both lists.

Though perhaps they allocate the full scholarships before the half-scholarships - that would be logical enough.

If anyone is going to the admissions information evening for prospective parents on 5th April, it would be a simple question to ask.

I think they would only gain from having the process as transparent as possible.

[tiddles]

oh for goodness sake can we stop bashing a school that has turned itself round dramatically? why would scholarships attract only middle class parents? don't all parents want the very best for their child?? They used these incentives (and I don't know the ins and outs of the how the heck they financed it) to attract people to make them WANT to send their kids there rather than be the option that a few years ago made people move to kent to avoid it. Lets be thankful that we now have an additional co-ed school to add to the the list of acceptable secondary schools in the area. I understand how awful it is if you have got somewhere that was not on your list. Parents can express a preference and do not really get a choice do they? Please don't turn this into and anti kingsdale thing. As Msgee says, it seems to be Kingsdale parents blowing the trumpet. I don't see it as Kingsdale versusu Charter versus Askes, just thank goodness there is another school available - but obviously as has been pointed out - not enough co-ed non faith schools.

Going off on a tangent here - purely out of interest - how do people feel about Peckham Academy? This now is the option that people don't seem happy to have got (or so I perceive) - but is it going to do a Kingsdale? Is it 'on the turn' I don't know any childred there and am just interested. Apologies if I offend anyone who has children there - I am going by old info which could be well out of date.

[westof]

prickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That takes me back! Kingsdale's rebuild was in the

> halcyon days of New Labour. My brother was in the

> team that worked on the rebuild of the school and

> the project was based on the premise that

> architecture could change the failing school ? a

> sort of experiment, clearly one that has worked.

>

> It's the Coalition's shame that even with the

> evidence from the success of schools like

> Kingsdale where improvement in the built

> environment has had such a positive impact, the

> BSF has been canned. Shame on Mr Gove.

Well, the difference between in Kingsdale in 1998 after 19 years of Tory government and in 2010 after 13 years of Labour is pretty shocking... probably too simplistic a comparison though?

[Keef]

Or possibly spot on.

[Dorothy]

People are not bashing Kingsdale. They are saying, I think, that they would like their children to go there. They would like it to be an option but for far too many local children it won't be. I don't know the absolute facts but I have been told that only one girl from Goodrich has been offered a place this year. Well the catchment for Goodrich is pretty small and for the vast majority of Goodrich pupils who live within that catchment, Kingsdale will be their closest co-ed secondary school. Because Charter is out of the question. There is no point in congratulating ourselves on living in a lovely SE London suburb, with two great secondary schools, if such a huge number of local children are not able to attend them.

[dully]

My secondary school publicized itself in the same way as Kingsdale. For open evenings the head of year specifically asked only (and openly in assembly) White students to volunteer for helping out and that no black students were wanted to help out. This was 1997. They then asked all the music and after school clubs to put on performances. Apart from being hypocritical and racist it only put forward maybe 15-25% of school activity and ignored the 1 in 3 black students we had. It was shameless. The thing is all the effort of the school still went on this 25% and everything else just coped. They fixed the school GCSE results by simply not entering people who were bound to fail. about 50% of students were entered in to 5 or less GCSE whereas students who were given time and support where enter into thirteen GCSEs. They were the top school in the borough (Thomas Tallis, se3) but there were so many people who they let down because they were so focused on the cream of the crop.

[Keef]

Tallis always attracted a lot of middle classes from black heath and brockley. That is shocking though!

[murphy]

Tiddles - you asked about Peckham Academy ofsted report 2009 - improving but a long, long way to go.

If Kingsdale and Charter are not an option then Harris Boys and Harris Girls (already well on the turn) are pretty good options and with more kids from East Dulwich now likely to attend will improve further.

[h1981]

Our boy's winded up at Harris East Dulwich and we're all very happy with that. It wasn't in our consideration initially (Kingsdale number one on the list!), but after walking around the school, hearing positive testimonials and discovering mainly good things from our own research, we changed our minds, this despite a couple of friends tutting, "ooo, they have early starts you know", "ooo, they sing a school song you know"!