The Sun and Doves....comments

[tllm2]

Felt the need to report back on our experience of lunch today at the Sun and Doves, which was pretty grim to say the least.

Should start by saying I've not been there for a good few years, but had good memories of afternoons spent in their courtyard garden, so thought I'd got back for a long overdue visit.

Booked a table for our group a week in advance for today, but having arrived, stood around while the waiter moved 3 tables together and laid them to accommodate us.

Once everyone was seated, we all perrused the menu which has maybe 4/5 starters, perhaps 6/7 mains and 3 puds. Very much liked the child sized portions being available and our order included a child's portion of the pasta and meatballs. A few minutes later the waiter came back to say that the pasta and meatballs weren't available, so asked for a small/child's portion of plain burger and chips instead. Again the waiter came back to say that there's no child sized burger available, so we had to choose again or go with the adult portion..... the adult portion was the easiest option.

So, the food turns up - well at least one adult burger and chips does - and the rest of us sit in anticipation and nothing else in forthcoming. We insist that the one person served eat while the food is hot and eventually the other meals turn up, when the first one to arrive was all but finished.

I can't vouch for others food, but I had the salmon fishcakes and calling them bland is being generous ............ if there was any fish in them at all I certainly couldn't taste it.

After the main meal - paid a visit to the bathroom. Avoid that like the plague too. I can only vouch for the ladies, but the surroundings are fairly grotty and a lack of any paper towells (of anykind), made me turn tail and cross my legs.

Next up was dessert - bearing in mind there are only 3 options available. Having ordered, the waiter returned again to let us know that one of those was off too.

Complained to the manageress who really couldn't have cared less - with the only excuse forthcoming being that the cleaner was at fault for the state of the bathroom ...........

So when the bill came, which included that the desserts they didn't have and some chips that never did arrive, had it changed, but paid no service at all - which I must admit I feel rather guilty about now, for the sake of what appeared to be the lone, harrassed waiter.

So in summary terrible service, terrible food, grotty place ................... am not surprised that the awards they have date back to the 90s', it certainly isn't very deserving of any now .............. we won't be going back.

[The Minkey]

What a shame you had such a lousy experience :-( I remember it from years ago when it was a lot more pleasant.

If it's the same manageress I had spoke to last year, she's not doing the place any favours. I happened to meet a friend there and we got some food which was OK but the glass of Merlot was pure nastiness. I asked the waiter, nicely, whether it had come from an already opened bottle because if so, it had gone off. He said he'd look into it then along comes the manageress who just ignored the situation, insisting that the Merlot was very popular. What a bizarre way to handle a customer complaint - lol. Didn't bother to argue it, just scrubbed it off my list of places to go.

[Huguenot]

Was it busy? I think the landlord sometimes posts on here?

[tllm2]

It wasn't busy at all - maybe half a dozen tables filled ............. so that wasn't an excuse.

Like Minkey I remember it fondly from a good few years ago, I should have left it at that.

[ClareC]

I used to go there frequently about 4 years ago, it was really good then. Sounds as though it's no longer the place it used to be :-(

[PeckhamRose]

Shame.

This afternoon I went in to a pub where both the barmaid and several customers were openly smoking!!

Shame about Sun & Doves, haven't been there in years and it used to be so very arty and *arty...!

[Annette Curtain]

Sun & Doves USED to be a great pub.

Sadly it seems to have gone downhill. Mind you I drove past it yesterday and it seemed very neat & tidy.

Nette.:)

[tllm2]

Huguenot thinks the landlord posts on here - hopefully he/she will see this ........... to be fair it seems like a good few of the problems are simply ones that could be solved with a decent manager/manageress in place.

[Mick Mac]

If we keep this up, soon there will be no pubs left to go to.

[Huguenot]

Ah, I san't suggesting that being busy was so much an excuse, but if it was busy it might demonstrate that they were resting on their laurels.

It sounds like customers are voting with their feet if it only had 6 tables on a Sunday lunch.

Mark Dodds was the name of the landlord, I don't know if he still is. He was a real 'believer' so I'm surprised if he let it go to seed.

[KidKruger]

Yes I knew Mark and he was extremely pro-active in presenting the bar/restaurant well. Surprised to hear that the place may be on the slide :(

[taper]

Hell's teeth: a couple of dodgy reviews and the place stands condemned. The doves is a fine place, with a lot of soul. And Mark Dodds is a hero! The food's always been a bit average, but easily on a par with most pubs hereabouts.

[tllm2]

Do elaborate - 'fine' in what respect .....

Only felt the need to post about it, as it fell short on just about every aspect it could. Am certainly not condemning it, I'm sure it must have its loyal customers, but having not visited for years, was sorely disappointed...... rose coloured glasses and all that ............

[Keef]

I used to really like it there, but haven't been in a few years either.

Is Mark Dodds still there?

[taper]

'fine' as follows. The bogs I like. Chips plentiful. The garden. Booze is ok. Mark Dodds. Cinema nights. Gigs. It's a fine establishment, mainly.

[Jah Lush]

That's rather said to here. Not been there for years. It was a nice little hangout in the late 80s early 90s. I sincerely hope this "decline" is not permanent and would be very pleased to hear future reviews of it getting back on its feet.

[Mark Dodds]

@tllm2 You had a bad experience and shouldn't have. I'm really sorry about that. It's not acceptable and I don't take this sort of feedback lightly. Neither does anyone who works at The Sun and Doves. Luke, our bartender who's been here for six years or more found your 'review' and told me about it with concern. I'll deal in detail with what happened below, not as an excuse more an explanation, and hope you can bear with me through the next paragraph while I put An Other, different reality forward.

While you had a bad experience I assure you and the mass of esteemedly critical customers out there who are quick to accept tllm2's assessment as a permanent indictment of our standards without trying the place for yourselves that we frequently get customers - old and new and right now - currently - not in the past - telling us that X was brilliant or Y is the best we've ever had. Only two Sundays past an American woman told a friend of mine 'I had the best Sunday roast ever in this lovely pub near Kings on Coldharbour Lane'. She couldn't remember the name until my friend asked if it was the Sun and Doves. It was. This week we had two separate lunchtime customers feedback similarly about food and I OFTEN am congratulated on the friendliness, professionalism, care and attention our staff show toward their customers. On top of that we do more work than almost any other bar I know to make sure that interesting things are happening most of the time and we are very actively used as community hub and general social resource which is, I believe, what pubs ought to be.

Back to the detail of tllm2's ghastly experience.

We've recently been thin on the ground with experienced people because for entirely disparate reasons three of our long standing people emigrated, went travelling or moved alewhere in UK and others are on holiday. It's VERY HARD to substitute people who've worked together for years and know the place inside out... The people who remain are experienced enough and good natured but have to work much harder than usual to try to cover the gaps that unavoidably appear. You had a new waiter, DAVID, whose skills are good but who was not up to speed about being here or well enough trained about the menu. Clearly he shouldn't really have been on a shift unless it had been alongside two more experienced people and on Saturday there was only one other. When one person gets serving on the bar and the other is adrift serving food without the knowledge then disaster can strike and did. Apologies.

Sorry you don't like the loos and sorry there were no towels. SORRY. I can't say I agree they are grotty but at the same time will admit I've never been able to afford to get them up to the standard of decor I'd really like them to be at. That's a long story and stretches back sixteen years and includes setting up the Fair Pint Campaign which lobbies government to make the Beer Tie, which takes most of our profits and those of the majority of pubs, illegal. Lack of paper towels was an oversight of the inexcusable kind. Did you mention the missing paper towels by any chance? Once oversight happens it remains so and nothing is done about it until it's pointed out.

The communication about the food, and the children's size availability, is inexcusable except as above - no one should be let loose on customers like that until they know the menu inside out, for their own or customers' or our reputation's sake. We're human and we make mistakes, I hate it, but that's the way it is when you're short staffed. I will apologise to David and to Stephanie for allowing this to happen.

The merlot. If it wasn't good - as you indicate - Stephanie should have offered to change the drink. She didn't, I'll find out why not. What Stephanie told you about the wine IS true though. The merlot, as with all our wines, is really good for the price. I rarely find wine even close to as good as ours in other places even when it's MUCH more expensive by the glass or bottle. Try Grand Union, Victoria, Bishop - basically almost anywhere else and you'll be paying anything from 50p - 1.20p more per glass for stuff not as good. Sometimes I'm amazed at how cheap, I mean good value, we are. I've got great relationships with small suppliers; get the best prices possible - by consent not by threat or horsetrading - we sell a lot of wine - and pass the benefit of these relationships onto our customers.

Enough. Just now, during this post, I overhear a customer telling their waiter that the food was great and is service included? Why not consider giving us a try again, happily on the house? Send me a PM and we can arrange a return visit if you care to take up the offer. Hopefully we can compensate you fairly for the failings you experienced.

By the way we're doing live music at The Sun and Doves every Monday night from now on at 8pm with Dan Spanner's big band 8pm and coincidentally for brass in Camberwell tonight Big Ass Brass are playing The Crypt under St Giles Church:

www.camberwellcrypt.com

And thanks to those of you who posted more positively.

[tllm2]

Have PM'd you - but not for a return visit I must add.

[derbyean]

A convincing post from Mark Dodds, who sounds very professional.

[Mick Mac]

I think its poor form not to take up the offer of a free return visit but each to their own. It would be nice to hear the feedback from another visit since you went so public re your original experience.

[tllm2]

I'm sure I don't need to reiterate just how disappointed (putting it politely) we were with our visit ....... my leisure time is far too important to me to spend it in such a place ........... poor form or not. Once bitten, twice shy and all that ..

Do you really think that a free return visit would be a true indicator of typical food, service, etc..... I think not.

[Horsebox]

Good response from Mark Dodds. I'm not sure what more a business can to do try and change someone's perception.

I haven't been to The Sun & Doves for a couple of years (for no particular reason other that it is slightly out of the way) but am tempted to return quite soon.

[The Minkey]

Thanks for responding Mark. I'd imagine your Merlot must usually be a lot better than that, it couldn't be so popular if it weren't. Unfortunately, the wine we were served wasn't right. Like I say, it tasted like it had come from a bottle which had been left lying open for too long. The manageress who was there the day we had lunch, came over and told us that it was a very popular wine, end of story. Not in those words exactly, but that was definitely the message. It left us with a bad impression, as I think it would anyone. I wouldn't have commented on this thread if it hadn't been a memorable visit, it was just a shame it was for the wrong reason.

[taper]

Tllm

You're a churl. Other readers: give The Doves a go. It's a great and unique local institution. And the bogs are interesting.

[The Minkey]

I'm overdue a meet up with the friend I had lunch with that day. Should you want to offer us a glass each of that merlot on the house, we'd be delighted for a chance to taste what it should have been like.