The Royal Mail

[PeckhamRose]

What's your thoughts? My experience is that I live on a small estate and our regular postman is an absolute gem who can read, and he goes beyond the call of duty (behave!) knowing I work from home and that my post IS my work. I always know when he is away because I get post for other blocks on the estate in my letterbox. Recently, my postman told me - when he delivered a Special Delivery item 40 mins after the 1.00pm deadline - that of course I should claim compensation for that but also, he said, that his work load had been SO great recently that he was simply unable to get around every address he was expected to deliver to. Including my block. So he delivered to my block for free as he had to do my Special Delivery anyway. He felt so bad about it. He was not going to get over-time for it. The other blocks did not get post that day. And meanwhile he is thinking of training to be a teacher. I have written to the bosses at SE15 sorting office but never get a reply from them. But it IS the managers who are a problem and not the dedicated workers, and many of them ARE dedicated workers.

Of course, the problem also is the fact that the mail service is a SERVICE and should never have been made a profit making company.

What we gunno do?

[Administrator]

Moved to the Lounge

[LostThePlot]

I have to say my postie as a Gem! Always polite, and will call me over if he sees me in the street to give me my post, to same me having to collect stuff.

Funny thing was I went to the sorting office to collect some stuff last week during the strike and he was on the Picket line. Had a chat and that, nice fella...

Agree with you P'Rose. A service can still be made to run efficiently, but it with profit as a goal...HHHmmmmm.

Still have to say though, is one of the best value services given whjat is achieved for the price.

E

[downsouth]

They actually lose 5 and half pence for every letter delivered - so it's no wonder it's value for money. As regards this strike thing It's probably best I don't say anything.

[david_carnell]

You won't get me I'm part on the union

You won't get me I'm part of the union

You won't get me I'm part of the union

Til the day I die

Til the day I die

Up the proletariat workers! Down with the bourgeosie bosses!

Do people on picket lines still have braziers?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Only available in D cup!

[LostThePlot]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> Only available in D cup!

Oh it's just a storm in a...

[boosboss]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Do people on picket lines still have braziers?

Nah! Probably due to H&S, except the Fire Brigade, but then thier well equiped to cope (Stop it B)

[Ant]

If striking firefighters extinguished an out-of-control brazier, would that make them scabs?

[Brendan]

I was working for the Fire Brigade when they were on strike about 5 years ago. I wasn?t part of uniformed staff so wasn?t strike myself but there is a station right next door to the offices where I worked. One afternoon I was outside talking to some of the guys on the picket when we heard a call of ?Fire! Fire!? coming from the rooms above the pub on the other side of the station. We looked up and sure enough there were flames coming out of a window and a very frightened looking guy trying to climb out.

Without a moments hesitation the guys on the picket ran inside, grabbed their gear and had the fire out and everything sorted in 10 minutes.

They were back on the picket by the time the green goddesses turned up.

Sorry that doesn't have anything to do with the Royal Mail.

[PeckhamRose]

Downsouth why say it's best if you don't say anything. That's like - er - um - like a dumb thing to say. Why bother even posting and wasting the bandwidth? I started this topic because I want to hear people's views. Assuming you're adult too - your view and experience may be useful to us all if you have something intelligent to offer the debate :)

downsouth Wrote:

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> They actually lose 5 and half pence for every

> letter delivered - so it's no wonder it's value

> for money. As regards this strike thing It's

> probably best I don't say anything.

[LostThePlot]

P'Rose,

Easy TIGER!!! DarnSarf was responding to my posting about VFM. Quite resonable post I thought, not sure why you took Umbridge with it. I presume the "Best say nowt" was due to some involvement in some way.

NOw, lets all play nicely!

[mockney piers]

Is Umbridge where the posh Archers is set? ;-P

[PeckhamRose]

Why is it best not to say anything about the strike though. I'd be interested in reading people's views who have something to say against it as well as for it. Looks like it's been settled now but I'll speak to the post men and women before opinionating on it. Meanwhile, a Special Delivery package I sent 4 days ago, guaranteed next day delivery by 1 pm, still has not arrived.....

[Marmora Man]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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> Why is it best not to say anything about the

> strike though. I'd be interested in reading

> people's views who have something to say against

> it as well as for it.

Views:

1. Post Office staff and management, at least as portrayed by media, remain old fashioned, overmanned and inward looking.

2. The strike and its conduct - was reminscent of 70's style confrontations.

3. Management appears to believe that robust management and confrontation is best.

4. Rather than trying to protect old ways of doing things (union) or incremental change (management)the PO (staff and management) should be looking at its assets and seeing how to use them to best advantage and come up with a shared / agreed strategy for change.

5. Assets:

* Nationwide network

* Large workforce

* Brand / reputation (slightly tarnished)

* Physical estate presence (all those post offices)

* probably a lot more

6. Options - some ideas:

* Give post offices Internet cafe facilities and online payment facilities - improves viability of existing sites. Improves revenues

* Franchise the PO Brand to non national providers (ie: not Tesco / Sainsbury) providing certain minimum standards are met (EG PO services - stamps, payments, parcel collection / delivery etc) for at least 8 hours a day 6 days a week then any shop may deliver them (it would boost footfall in village shops, local corner shops) Why not have PO servies in a pub, library, as a mobile service on a van, in a hospital / GP clinic? Improves revenues

* Reduce daily deliveries of "letter mail" to home addresses 3 times a week (do you really need your bank statement / postcard, letter, birthday card that urgently? Reduces costs[/i]

* Concentrate on "Business Services" - parcels and documents - akin to a courier service with several tiers (within 24 hrs, within 48 hrs, within the week) on 24/7 basis. Premium service - improves revenues

What do others think?

[Maurice]

Answers on a post card please. None of this flash in the pan whizzy stuff.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I have mixed feelings on this one, but much as Marmora Man makes some good points, how about this for an idea

Leave it alone.

Dodgy working practices as outlined in the press... do I care? Royal Mail has operated just fine for years and this strike is not about money so why go stirring things up? I would argue it's more for Crozier et al to justify their positions rather than any NEED to do anything. I'm sure in the end many of the practices and inefficiencies will be rectified but to what end? Will Joe and Josephine punter get a better service? No (ummm... fact!)

Much like the needless opening up of directory services, does anyone really believe we are now in a better place than when we just had 192 for free?

I think some inefficiencies are, ultimately, efficient.

The very people who think the EU has nothing better to do than tell the UK off for not using metric/banana shapes/whatever the Mail feels like that week, see to think that telling working people what to do is perfectly reasonable. It's not efficient to have multiple measurement units internationally but not too many right-of-centre people wish to adopt an obvious solution

[downsouth]

P'Rose I'm sorry you fely my comment to be dumb and to have no merit in this debate. I did think my 5p comment was at least worth a half mark?

Regarding this strike, and following on from MM and Sean, the stance taken particularly by the union - although management are somewhat to blame - does get me very heated. It is unfortunately inevitable that the Royal Mail and Post Office will be privatised - I am not sure whether it will be as the same company or two distinct entities. That is the shape of it, Labour won't renege - they've been cosying up to big business for the longest while and others have invested on the back of stated government policy. The Tories are hardly likely to chnage this course of events. So, ipso facto, it is barring a huge change of sentiment from the massess a faite accompli (I hope you like my mix of Latin and French terms in the same sentence!). I may not agree with the policy but it is what it is. So as I see it, when the seas are rising you don't destroy or leave unattended your flood defences you fortify them. And, metaphorically speaking, that aint wot the unionz are doing.

When competition arrives in full through the liberalisation of all postage and mail, the workers will eventually realise that the softly softly approach of management was actually a better tonic than the pill they will be made to swallow.

[Marmora Man]

hi

[SeanMacGabhann]

downsouth makes almost 100% correct assumptions (and gains bonus points for crowbaring the almost neglected phrase "ipso facto" in !) but neglects to mention what exactly the whole exercise is for

yes it's going to happen. yes the Tories would do the same. But. To. What. End?

I genuinely don't believe the public will benefit. It's all very well saying the union is stuck in the past, but that's no more dogmatic an approach than that of the government and management (and has the advantage of at least giving the public what they want)

There is an argument that says "do we actually need the postal service as it has been?" but that's not the argument the government/management are honest enough to make

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

What he said. Plus lots of small companies competing for the honour of delivering our mail would be less efficient, would cherry pick, would put up prices and make a mess of it, just like happened with the rail service. We need a National postal service, not a post it and pray it gets there service.

[downsouth]

Sean as I said I don't agree with the policy. Privatisation works sometimes but there are glaring excpetions some of which we are lumbered with in our daily grind. But it won't change. Unless the public truly objects it won't change. It's not the place of the unions to stop it happening if that is government policy.

I already know of a number of companies large and small who are reviewing their Mailing strategies i.e. (a) what do they really need sent by post and what are the alternatives i.e. e-mail, internet, telephone, advertisements or not sending types of communication at all, and (b) identifying rival carriers for specific types of post - especially corporate post in the major cities.

The problem that we have is that the tax burden keeps rising - more and more quangos, more and more civil servants and hence pensions and other liabilities for joe public to fund, hence the government, barring rising direct taxation by x pence in the ?, is trying to rid itself of some costs it believes will revlieve the public purse (exchequer) and at the same time provide another spur of cash like other privatisations in the past. In some ways we only have ourselves to blame as we (the electorate) demand new bodies to be set up all the time to investigate this, monitor that and someone has to pay for it. It's the same with the BBC which will now be downsized because some people object to the TAX of the licence fee and because the government again wants to reduce the BBC in size.

For the record I am against the imposition on BBC as well as that of royal mail and post office - they are services that ought to be provided by the government to a standard we all would like to see. If they need to increase the price of a stamp by 5 pence or the licence fee by a reasonable amount then I think they should just go ahead and do it.

[cdonline]

I know that there are many who are doing a great job at the Royal Mail, but it seems that there needs to be major changes in the way they work.

I used to work at the Royal Mail. I'm afraid it was a horrible time in my life. Sexism and homophobia were rife in their ranks.

Knocking off early was institutionalised and nobody seemed to quesiton such things. With most of the middle management promoted from the floor, you couldn't help thinking that they were behaving as 'one of the lads' rather than working towards productivity.

Casual staff were treated as though they were the enemy.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I can't see that you can run a service that provides a delivery to every door once a day, without serious investment.

I understand that people want to protect their jobs, but radical ideas and investment seem the only way forward, unless we accept that we will continue to get a third ratee national mail service.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I hear what you say cdonline but is it really a third rate service. It has definitely gone downhill in recent years but if we accept the practices you mention were still rife back when it was a much better service, is it really those practices or is it the recent management changes which have caused the slide?

[cdonline]

Sean

You make a fair point. It may be that poor management has led to the problems. Are we going to pay for an excellent service, or allow it to slide.

I know we have had strikes, but there are letters I posted over a week ago have yet to arrive.

The building I live in, gets its post delivered between 2 and 3 in the afternoon.

I don't really have the answer and this is probably no more than a rant.