homeless man in wheelchair living outside harvester pub

[Champ]

The people objecting to this man being given blankets and food are either delusional or sadistic. Their argument that this is somehow preventing care from charities is erroneous in this context as it?s already been stated several times he has refused this help. So, those that have been kind enough to have helped him should certainly not be made to feel any guilt for their charity.

Additionally, those who are uncomfortable about individuals being discussed on the internet need to stop being so pathetic.

[nxjen]

It?s called sensitivity to others? feelings: we are not discussing a celebrity who is looking for attention.

[Peckhampam]

Champ, tell us a bit about your circumstances and vulnerabilities. Then we could discuss them on this thread (even if we don't really know anything about you). I'm sure you would not like that and the respect you would want should also be extended to the person this thread is about

[Champ]

It is ill advice to suggest people reveal their circumstances or vulnerabilities on an online forum. Personally, if I was in an unfortunate situation similar to the one above I would be very happy that people in the community were concerned about me and discussing how I could be helped. If the only people we could talk about were attention seeking celebrities then I guarantee you this forum wouldn?t last long.

[Carofen]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Amazing how binary some people's view of the world

> is. Giving money or goods to a person on the

> street does not preclude giving money to or

> volunteering for a charity, and I'm sure many

> people on here do both (I claim no such thing for

> myself, beyond buying him a sandwich a few years

> ago I've had no interaction with this man).

>

> With this particular individual he has made it

> clear that he chooses to reject institutional

> help, so people aren't keeping him on the street

> by giving him the occasional blanket or pot of

> food; the accusations that they're "keeping him

> out there" and are likely to kill him are

> ridiculous, he'd be out there anyway - quite

> possibly they've kept him alive.

>

> All this guff about intruding into his life by

> having a thread on here is tiresome. It seems

> clear from what many have said that he welcomes

> the attention, and he himself agreed to have his

> plight publicized in London's biggest newspaper,

> so let's give up on the "cyberstalking" and

> "shoving yourself into his life" accusations,

> shall we?

>

> I find it really depressing, in a world full of

> selfishness and greed, that when people try to do

> a little something for a fellow human being others

> leap for their high horse to tell them they're

> doing it the wrong way, or being patronizing, or

> only doing it for their own ego, yadayadayada.

> Maybe all those things are true, maybe not, but

> they're still trying to do some good. Perhaps

> everyone should only give money to established

> charities, and when someone like this guy who

> won't take help from them dies of pneumonia which

> maybe could have been avoided if someone had taken

> him a spare blanket or the occasional bit of hot

> food we can all give ourselves a pat on the back

> and say we did the approved thing.

>

> If I'm ever unfortunate enough to find myself in

> Paddy's position I hope I receive the goodwill,

> kindness and concern others have shown for him,

> and I won't question their motives or ask them why

> they're not giving through properly regulated

> institutions, I'd just be glad of it.

[Carofen]

rendelharris Wrote:

Couldn't agree more or have said it better ....

-----------------------------------------------------

> Amazing how binary some people's view of the world

> is. Giving money or goods to a person on the

> street does not preclude giving money to or

> volunteering for a charity, and I'm sure many

> people on here do both (I claim no such thing for

> myself, beyond buying him a sandwich a few years

> ago I've had no interaction with this man).

>

> With this particular individual he has made it

> clear that he chooses to reject institutional

> help, so people aren't keeping him on the street

> by giving him the occasional blanket or pot of

> food; the accusations that they're "keeping him

> out there" and are likely to kill him are

> ridiculous, he'd be out there anyway - quite

> possibly they've kept him alive.

>

> All this guff about intruding into his life by

> having a thread on here is tiresome. It seems

> clear from what many have said that he welcomes

> the attention, and he himself agreed to have his

> plight publicized in London's biggest newspaper,

> so let's give up on the "cyberstalking" and

> "shoving yourself into his life" accusations,

> shall we?

>

> I find it really depressing, in a world full of

> selfishness and greed, that when people try to do

> a little something for a fellow human being others

> leap for their high horse to tell them they're

> doing it the wrong way, or being patronizing, or

> only doing it for their own ego, yadayadayada.

> Maybe all those things are true, maybe not, but

> they're still trying to do some good. Perhaps

> everyone should only give money to established

> charities, and when someone like this guy who

> won't take help from them dies of pneumonia which

> maybe could have been avoided if someone had taken

> him a spare blanket or the occasional bit of hot

> food we can all give ourselves a pat on the back

> and say we did the approved thing.

>

> If I'm ever unfortunate enough to find myself in

> Paddy's position I hope I receive the goodwill,

> kindness and concern others have shown for him,

> and I won't question their motives or ask them why

> they're not giving through properly regulated

> institutions, I'd just be glad of it.

[JoeLeg]

.

[tomskip]

It was me who said that enabling this man (sorry, I'm unsure of his name although I know it has been posted somewhere on the thread) to live in a makeshift shelter with cooking equipment and candles had not been a good idea. By all means give food, money and blankets if that makes you feel like you (collective you) are doing something. How he will keep blankets dry in this weather I have no idea - I'd have thought a really high quality waterproof sleeping bag and lots of hats, gloves and hot drinks would be more immediately helpful.

It is quite preposterous to suggest that anyone who posts their concern that it's misguided to help him set up home somewhere open to the elements is uncharitable, uncaring and bothered about fecking house prices! Infact, the opposite seems to me to be the case. As Sabrina so clearly posts - she is worried he is going to die and I'm quite certain that everyone else who has posted about him on this thread feels the same way!

I haven't seen anything here to persuade me that enabling this guy is in anyway helpful to him other than an extremely short term fix which is in no way sustainable.

I don't have any wish to prolong the argument, I just wanted to defend myself against the "uncharitable" accusation.

[tomskip]

And just because he chooses to reject institutional help right now, one has to hope he'll change his mind about that at some point. Because the way he lives now is not sustainable despite the efforts of the good people of ED.

[Blah Blah]

Just to try and bring some equilibrium back to this discussion. There are a lot of complex aspects to this and criticism doesn't help anyone. The system of getting rough sleepers into housing is flawed and it is especially flawed for those with other problems like alcohol and drug addictions. At the same time, living in a highly flammable makeshift shelter with gas burning stoves and candles is a disaster waiting to happen too.

I am just wondering if something like a tent would help this guy for now. Even a basic popup tent would help keep him and his belongings dry and warm. There are no end of places locally he could pitch that. And as someone above says, hopefully he will change his mind on accepting help from other organisations in the future.

[lavender27]

Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, or insensitive, why has he only got one leg, what happened to him?

[JoeLeg]

Car accident, long time back, I think.

[Jules-and-Boo]

wanting to help someone is admirable - finding the best way is a challenge - talking about them is a bit of invasion of privacy, don't you think?

And I'm not referring to any particular post but the whole post - perhaps someone who talks to him might mention there's a forum where he's discussed. Maybe he'd be flattered, maybe he wouldn't care.

Personally, I wouldn't like it.

[hellosailor]

He knows that he's being discussed on the forum because many of the people who have taken him food / blankets / clothes / sleeping bags (sleeping bag was destroyed in the fire, someone earlier in the thread was asking about giving him a sleeping bag) have told him that they found out about his plight by reading the thread. He was also interviewed for a local newspaper which was how others found out about his situation. He doesn't feel offended or patronised, he says he feels very touched that people are doing what they can to help him.

[JoeLeg]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> wanting to help someone is admirable - finding the

> best way is a challenge - talking about them is a

> bit of invasion of privacy, don't you think?

>

> And I'm not referring to any particular post but

> the whole post - perhaps someone who talks to him

> might mention there's a forum where he's

> discussed. Maybe he'd be flattered, maybe he

> wouldn't care.

>

> Personally, I wouldn't like it.

How many threads on here, and the internet in general, discuss someone who isn?t present?

[rendelharris]

(Deleted on a life's too short basis)

[Take Note]

tomskip Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It was me who said that enabling this man (sorry,

> I'm unsure of his name although I know it has been

> posted somewhere on the thread) to live in a

> makeshift shelter with cooking equipment and

> candles had not been a good idea. By all means

> give food, money and blankets if that makes you

> feel like you (collective you) are doing

> something. How he will keep blankets dry in this

> weather I have no idea - I'd have thought a really

> high quality waterproof sleeping bag and lots of

> hats, gloves and hot drinks would be more

> immediately helpful.

>

> It is quite preposterous to suggest that anyone

> who posts their concern that it's misguided to

> help him set up home somewhere open to the

> elements is uncharitable, uncaring and bothered

> about fecking house prices! Infact, the opposite

> seems to me to be the case. As Sabrina so clearly

> posts - she is worried he is going to die and I'm

> quite certain that everyone else who has posted

> about him on this thread feels the same way!

>

> I haven't seen anything here to persuade me that

> enabling this guy is in anyway helpful to him

> other than an extremely short term fix which is in

> no way sustainable.

>

> I don't have any wish to prolong the argument, I

> just wanted to defend myself against the

> "uncharitable" accusation.

His name is Padraig. (pronounced pawrick) but he's known as Paddy. How you;ve missed his name, I've no idea.

[intexasatthe moment]

Rendel -

I've asked you to leave me alone ,you clearly don't understand that this means do not send me PMs .

What on earth is the matter with you that you feel the need to persue someone with inane criticisms ?

[rendelharris]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rendel -

> I've asked you to leave me alone ,you clearly

> don't understand that this means do not send me

> PMs .

>

> What on earth is the matter with you that you feel

> the need to persue someone with inane criticisms ?

Very well, as you refuse to read my personal message I'll post it on here for you. Kindly bear in mind that it was you who launched a personal attack on me, not vice versa.

I thought I made it rather clear that I haven't enjoyed the discussion as I find it absurd that one has to try to defend people trying to be kind to others. I'm sorry that you've chosen to be so aggressive, I think you should note that it was you who began attacking people by calling them, and I quote, "misguided" "misdirected", guilty of a "kneejerk reaction" and "a delusion or pseudo helping behaviour." If you don't want your views criticized by those who disagree with them don't post them on a public forum would be my advice.

Regards,

R

[lilithangel]

I live directly opposite the pub and I?ve watched the disabled chap move in, the people build the shelter, and the good hearted souls deliver him food and blankets and it?s heart breaking. However I have also watched the mice scurrying around the area eating the left over food he left behind, Ive watched him empty bags & bottles of urine into the road and I?ve witness the bags of human waste he left for people to clean up. I?ve already witness 2 fires in that building when in was occupied so to see another was terrifying. Last night he was at the bus stop in his wheel chair , steaming drunk from 4pm until 7pm shouting abuse at people. He lashed out at a child and almost caused a fight. I live with this because it happens underneath my window. The first thing I see in the morning is the area he left behind. I had to walk past him every day to catch a bus to work and even though he was never rude to me I had to walk past the smell of human waste and unwashed bodies. I had to watch where I walk and avoid the mice and now listen to him rant and rave. I am not saying don?t help people, but this is a man who clearly does not want help. Yes he?s an alcoholic and that?s not something you can recover from over night, but help has been offered and he?s turned down. Please stop enabling this man. It?s not happening on your doorstep so you do not have to put up with it 24 hours a day and deal with the mess that?s left behind. If you want to help him report it to social services, contact and out reach charity, call the vicar/priest.

[intexasatthe moment]

I think Sabrina makes good points .

I also think that the whole issue of homelessness is so great that it's painful to think about .To me ,this thread represents a way in which individuals can feel that they are "doing something " ,helping .

But I believe that their help is missdirected ,missguided .Greater benefit could be achieved by a regular donation to one of the charities that work with homeless people .

Surely that's not hard to understand ? I guess "adopting" our own EDF homeless person creates a temporary glow and feeling that someone has been helped - I'm guilty of this when I hand over money to people in the street .For me it's a knee jerk reaction and makes me feel a bit better about myself and a little less guilty about the money I've just spent on myself in the shops .

BUT I think it's a delusion or pseudo helping behaviour as Alice has described it,the money would be better used in the hands of an organisation who work with the homeless .

I've reposted my orginal post - for clarity .

In your rush to find something to be angry about you seem to have missed the FOR ME in the penultimate paragraph .And the fact that in the last paragraph I'm talking about money - the money I give ,as you've pointed out elsewhere no one has mentioned giving money to the homeless person on this thread .

Do the other posters on here actually need you to defend them ? Are you really riding to their defence like a knight in shining armour ?

[rendelharris]

Give it up now old fruit, you've taken this far too far already - posting about me personally in the Lounge? I mean really, presumably you're a grown adult, have a little dignity.

[intexasatthe moment]

May I refer the honourable gentleman Rendelharris to his post last night at 11.16pm ?

[rendelharris]

Enough now, it's boring me so God knows how dull it must be for everyone else. Just give it up.

[intexasatthe moment]

And your responses are what ? Attempts to leven the boredom ? End the conversation ? Ever thought of taking your own advice ?