Camberwell Grove - road closure / opening (Lounged)

[Maurice]

You are right. But something about the road closure has made the road feel even more inaccessible by the 'riff raff' too. I can't explain it, but it feels as a no-go area and the litter louts/street drinkers etc. have lessened.

[Alan Dale]

That's an attribution error- it's happening everywhere. The Green has been cleaned up for a start.

[ratty]

Open the dam thing. I hate driving through Peckham to get home!

[Maurice]

Poor ratty. That's the best argument thus far - I may re-think it.

[cdonline]

If you have a car, there is always the main road.

It is so much more peaceful to walk to work, without cars trying to shortcut everywhere.

is it me, or are there a lot of people selling and buying in the Grove recently.

[*Bob*]

Grove houses always seem to be for sale. But they don't shift too quickly - as Maurice will no doubt testify.

[scor46]

It would be interesting to see if the crime rate in the immediate area has increased or decreased since the road has been closed to through traffic. I would suggest that it has gone down, as it?s not as easy for would-be robbers, muggers or burglars to make their escape by car. But it may also have risen due to less traffic or witnesses. Just a thought!!

For my own selfish reason I would like to see the road reopened, as it?s a long drive around.

[Maurice]

Yes - it is arguably one of the finest Georgian Terraces (throughout the Grove) in the whole of London. It speaks of a time when the village of Camberwell ruled the roost in suburban London. Sadly all 'round it went to the dogs. Save East Dulwich of course. Once our poor cousin, you are now our best hope.

Please take us in.

[RoadProAndy]

I cannot see why any discussion is necessary as to whether or not the Camberwell Grove bridge should be re-opened - apart from the matter of how to ensure that heavy vehicles don't damage it again.

For 200 years or so Camberwell Grove has always been an important through road. The bridge broke and the road had to be closed. Now the bridge is fixed and the road has to be (by law as I understand it) re-opened. What's the problem?

Actually, the only problem seems to be the self-interest of some people who live on the street. If they prefer not to have traffic passing by their houses, why are they living in Camberwell Grove? If they are genuinely concerned about quality of life issues, why do they not seem to care for the quality of life for the far greater number of people who have been adversely affected by the bridge closure?

Am I missing something?

Andrew

[Maurice]

Absolutely correct Andrew. But it's the one chance those of us who've invested in keeping Camberwell a decent place have to barricade the increasingly declining tip that is Camberwell proper from our community. If the rest of the place is happy to go to he** we've no option but to pull up the draw bridges. Frank, but true.

[Mr Bojangles]

Maurice, I think your honesty is fantastic; makes me laugh.

But despite your amusing posts I'm with Andrew on this.

[peckham_perkster]

have I stumbled upon some sort of Dickensian plot being written in cyber space? I can only assume that ye olde worlde honest folk that owne the 'manor houses' don't want the urban evil dwellers at the end of the lane to pass through their land... Good grief, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

The road should and will be opened, as so rightly pointed out by RoadProAndy, how this is managed should be the issue not whether it should or not. Whether the dwellings on Camberwell Grove are Georgian, Roman or built by Barratt in the last ten years it has no significance in this argument, it's about access and avoiding problems of other roads taking the brunt of the closure which effects quite a lot of other residents in the local area.

I come from a place where the exact same scheme was set up on a busy arterial road where the bridge became too weak for 2 lanes of cars so traffic lights were installed. It worked brilliantly, the traffic never built up trememdously and the system is still in use. If anything it made the flow of traffic a bit safer as people got used to the fact they would have to slow down as the traffic lights were up ahead thus calming the traffic down automatically.

All I will say is that certain people in this discussion do nothing to eradicate the 'them and us' attitude which is really boring and outdated. If these people want that quality of life with quiet green streets then I believe moving out of the city is the answer rather than harping on about how lovely things are now. If you live on Camberwell Grove then no doubt you can afford to, then all peace, calm and lack of 'boom boom' cars will be a thing of the past. No doubt you could also then buy that AK47 to keep people off your land as well.

[Nero]

PP,

What rot! Why should people who don't like boom-boom cars and other anti-social and possibly illegal activities not voice their sentiments? I agree with you that the road should be opened, but that does not preclude those who live on it and wish it to remain closed from speaking about their - justified - concerns over the yobs. There is a them and us in Camberwell. I am a them as I don't live there, but a lot of the place is shoddy and ugly. The attitude is not outdated, and only when we reach true harmony will such a phrase no longer need to be used. Nero

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

What's wrong with 'Camberwell proper'?

[Maurice]

It's a dump.

[RoadProAndy]

Maurice, I've lived in Grove Park - having moved from East Dulwich - for more than 20 years and have also "invested" in keeping Camberwell a decent place in which to live. I'd be happy to discuss the idea of barricading the entire area against the barbarians or, better still, declaring independence from the rest of the country and even Europe (don't get me started!!) altogether. However, I cannot see how closing the bridge on Camberwell Grove is going to achieve the improvements to our quality of life that we both would like and, obviously, richly deserve.

Andrew

[Maurice]

I know Andrew. But things have gotten a bit better since it closed. It's just a small start on an otherwise frustrating journey (no pun intended).

[RoadProAndy]

Maurice, what things have got a lot better?

Andrew

[RoadProAndy]

or even a bit better?

[*Bob*]

It's hard to feel too much sympathy for someone who could pretty-much afford to live anywhere they wanted.

Why not move, Mozzer?

[lesalden]

This is a typical NIMBY from CG residents. Wouldn't it be nice if we all had our road closed but could drive down everyone elses!

The fact is that the temporary closure simply placed an unfair increased burden on other peoples roads.

And that without a proper re-consideartion of traffic light re-phasing, and banned turns.

Before we had "rat-runs" we used to call them back-doubles. Their effect was to increase the total road capacity, speed up traffic flow and hence cut pollution.

To close this road permanently would simply be an unreasonable coup, at the expense of others in the area, by CG residents whose property values are already high enough . No.

[Maurice]

Oh that hurts? How can one's property values be high enough?

I don't kid myself that my arguments aren't going to win. But do you all really blame us for giving it a go? For those living on a fairly busy road, wouldn't you welcome the chance to close it to local traffic only?

As for improvements, as stated previously in this thread, the litter louts, street drinkers/urination brigades and just roaming yoofs have lessened. I can't explain why but it has improved. A 'no traffic' zone somehow becomes a 'no go' zone.

[Frisco]

"What rot! Why should people who don't like boom-boom cars and other anti-social and possibly illegal activities not voice their sentiments?"

Of course they have the right to voice their sentiments, but people also have the right to be critical of them. However, what those who exercise the right to express their sentiments don't have the right to expect is that they have the right to demand or expect is that these are a valid reason for close roads to traffic. As community members, we should all be committed to dealing with the problems you identify but the solution to the problems is not to exclude people and to create almost gated communities for twee isolationist snobs or the wealthy.

[Maurice]

I would add Frisco, it is absolutely fine to have a laugh at those perceived as 'rich toffs' but there isn't equal latitude given to those who live their lives off the system and destroy rather than create community.

[downsouth]

So Maurice do you think pedestrianisation is the solution for improving the whole of Camberwell?