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Trouble in peckham?

gk

By gk
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Undisputedtruth

Undisputedtruth

Posted
Posted

Scylla100 Wrote:

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> I think there's a link between stock markets

> crashing and kids rioting in London. Its heard

> behavior. There's some sort of zeitgeisty bubble

> bursting. Its like a big stampede of hoodie cows,

> or stock market trader cows, running us off the

> cliff for no logical reason any of us can really

> get hold of. I just hope I can get out of the

> way.


It's called Herd instincts behaviour BTW.

Loz

Loz

Posted
Posted

millymoo Wrote:

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> Sainsbury local on lordship lane has been broken

> into. Smoke currently billowing out. Police and

> fire brigade in attendance.


Are you sure Millymoo? There was an unconfirmed (and I think debunked) report about Sainburys DKH on another thread and someone opposite the Plough said the Local was fine.

Alex K

Alex K

Posted
Posted

Adam999 Wrote:

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> Alex K wrote

>

> > The failure to act swiftly, and forcefully, to END

> > those events... Isn't that the police's fault? Point for debate.

>

> Adam999 replied

> It's not a point for debate. The police are doing

> their best to control what is in effect mob rule

> across London with limited numbers and resources.

> They are brave people, risking their lives on the

> streets trying to deal with these rioters and so

> deserve our full support.


Hey, Adam999. Let me parse the idea of "the police" here. The front-line officers: Yes. They are doing what you say. They deserve our full support, as you say.


But "the police" are an apparatus that extends upward.


Our society accords to the Crown a very strict monopoly on the use of violence, of force. (Examples exist without number of those prevented from encroaching upon this monopoly -- the teachers not allowed to lay hands on disorderly pupils, the homeowners hauled into court for injury to burglars.) This monopoly exists because it is the royal duty, in protecting the realm and the subjects, to keep the Queen's peace. This monopoly is exercised by the Queen-in-Council through the police.


Over the last few days many persons have repeatedly breached the Queen's peace and the Crown has not acted through the police to ensure that that peace be kept. The Queen is thus derelict in her duty toward her realm and subjects -- an interesting point. In the days of the Riot Act, once the Crown had declared that a state of riot existed, once the Riot Act had been read and the breach of the peace was thus acknowledged, not only could force against rioters be used much more freely; in addition, insurers were relieved of their responsibility to compensate the damaged. Which is why we now have only "civil disturbances", as I understand it; no riots, because once riot exists then claims for damages fall against the Crown...


The persons directing the policemen and -women on the street are also "the police", Adam999. They have not done fairly by their subordinates on the street. They have not permitted those subordinates to deploy force in a manner that would let those subordinates ensure that the Queen's peace was kept. They have forgot how to exercise the police's monopoly on force, and they thus have put the public and their subordinates at risk. Those upper-level members of "the police" evoke my disgust.


I'm sorry not to have set out this train of argument in full when first I posted. Can we agree to support our uniformed policemen as they pound their beat and to deplore the nonfeasance of their desk-working superiors, right up through every level of the Home Office? I hope so.

BB100

BB100

Posted
Posted
EMA? Look closely at the footage. They are grown adults not just teenagers. However, it is true that the ones who have been most affected by public cuts have been young people. Closing Connexions, which helps the most disaffected and problem-loaded youths, is a big mistake.
Santerme

Santerme

Posted
Posted

Tarot Wrote:

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> What is evident is the serious lack of police,so

> using the army would make up the shortfall.

> This is anarchy no other exscuse,fuelled by the

> internet and followed through by a load of stupid

> fools who are probably drug fuelled and pot

> cocky.

> They do wear track suits and trainers, thats why

> those sports shops and chemist are being

> targeted.

> These uneducated gang fodder will always be a

> problem.

> Find out whose involved,cut their benifits off,

> throw them out of their council houses,cancel

> their college media grants

> cancel their carnivals.

> These people who disregard the areas they live in

> should be disregarded for any benifits other

> people have to work for.

> The goverment should get their fingers out of

> there axxxs, stop dismantling the country and

> remember P.C Blakeloch .

> Rubber bullets.


Goodness gracious.

trizza

trizza

Posted
Posted

The riots have nothing to do with cuts IMO, although I have no doubt that there will be those seeking to blame the government's austerity drive (such as it is).


I'm not sure the "youth of today" are any worse than previous generations. However, I think new technology (social networking, BB instant messenger) together with a heard mentality has had a huge impact - allowing young people to organise and interact with each other to arrange disorder in ways that they could not have done 15 years ago.


I know the Police do a hard job, but it was depressing to see press footage of looting in the nation's capital with the police just looking on. I hope measures are taken today to put a stop to this and I for one would have no issue with the army (regular or territorial) being deployed to make sure this happens.

The Minkey

The Minkey

Posted
Posted

"You OK, Minkey?"


Yes, thanks Sue. I got out of there quick and walked to New Cross Gate where my OH came to meet me and we got a cab back the rest of the way. Not before watching 3 van loads of scarved and hoodied guys empty out at the bottom of Jerningham Rd..


I warned as many people as I could not to carry on down to Peckham. One guy I saw on Queens Rd was waiting for a bus so I told him there were no buses. His english was pretty basic so I had to explain what a riot was, which came in useful again when he told me he was trying to get to Lewisham. Poor sod.

benmorg

benmorg

Posted
Posted

The Minkey Wrote:

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Not before watching 3 van loads of scarved and hoodied

> guys empty out at the bottom of Jerningham Rd.

>


I suspect last night's event were planned and organised to a significant extent. I don't think it was copycat violence - looks networked.

Michael Palaeologus

Michael Palaeologus

Posted
Posted

I live near to Tesco Express. During the evening various youths came past my flat, some carrying Tescos bags, all excited. They didnt seem organised, they didnt seem particularly hostile, just over-excited young men who were having a bit of a "jolly". Very wrong but not indicative of a deeper malaise.


On the other hand, I watched 3 young men, white, well prepared in balaclavas and scarves, carrying batons. For 20 minutes they hid behind a wall opposite, one talking on a phone the others keeping a watch out. That struck me as unsettling. They seemed prepared.

Frankito

Frankito

Posted
Posted

All very sad..


I cycled home yesterday evening from the city through Burgess Park and was pursued for a few minutes by a bunch of angry kids shouting and swearing at me to surrender my bike. I just laughed it off and kept on going, struck by the age and boisterous nature of the group, it wasn't until I put the tv on and events startedto unfokd tgat I realised just how serious the situation was...


And particularly glad I chose not to confront them.. Working from home today as I don't fancy taking any risks out there. Sorry to hear about those caught up in the midst of it all, hopefully no more.


Some people are critical of The Met for not taking a tougher stance but not sure what else they could have done to prevent a bad situation from descending into Hellish chaos. It's an impossible task, branded for being too heavy-handed over recent summit demos and now for not ploughing on in there.


Regardless of what anyone may say, I salute them...

KidKruger

KidKruger

Posted
Posted

Why are so many people making excuses for the troublemakers ??


It's pathetic and is symptomatic of why the offenders believe they can get away with this behaviour, no-one will come down on them in a meaningful way.


This was not about hardship or lack of prospects, of course if stopped by a reporter they will say they're being held back in life etc etc, it sounds more poetic than "well I never smashed a shop window before so I thought I'd give it a try".

If life's a struggle you work harder, not go and steal half a dozen mobile phones and some tequila.


These guys are doing it because they CAN. Because our civil authorities allow it and excuse it.

Theresa May on TV saying "This behaviour is just not acceptable". Sounds great, doesn't it, such a warm feeling of security her words create.


Also - I've already heard comments from people at work today that it was 'mainly blacks', what BS, even from the news coverage you can see that's far from the truth, in fact the opposite is true IMO.


Three white lads walking past CPT last night shortly before Tescos ED got attacked, smart phones lighting up their faces, hoods firmly up, one of them carrying what looked like a tent bag stuffed with whatever they felt they needed to make their contribution. When I asked them if they were going to Peckham, and, if so why, they all answered differently and with different levels of surity in their voices. Just out for the crack obviously. I believe none of those in Peckham last night have ever had to struggle for anything, had to work really hard to achieve anything and ever had to worry about paying their rent or their mortgage. If they did, they would know they are ruining what someone else has bust their balls for. Look how many family businesses, personal livelihoods and homes have been destroyed.


Conversely to what I've heard from some work colleagues today (about it being 'mainly black'), I believe most of the looters ('rioters' is much too generous a term for them) are white and will grow up resenting foreigners for 'stealing their jobs' while the foreigners they resent realise what opportunities there are in the UK and knuckle-down to try and improve their prospects. There may be hardship in UK but these lootings are not about hardship.


Pathetic law and order system tying itself in knots to try and look nice while London towns get destroyed by the home-grown losers fed on welfare BS.

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