help me please...cool mums

[Saffron]

Never said I disagree, just that I feel completely differently, not only to your post but many of the replies to Josiehendrick's post. One reason for that is b/c I do feel an ounce of kindred understanding for Josiehendrick's post, when she said that she is (paraphrasing for brevity) scared of becoming something she doesn't want to be (i.e., losing her pre-baby identity to motherhood) and scared of not finding any other women with those same feelings. For many women this is a hugh issue.

(Incidentally, her post never said that other mothering styles aren't cool or that there is anything wrong them, or that such coping strategies are flawed. See just doesn't seem to identify with them.)

To tell a woman that you hope for the sake of her baby that she (the mother) becomes what she's fears and turns into a very different person b/c nature destines it so, seems to me a very odd thing to say. I cannot identify with those statements.

Every woman will be changed by motherhood, as any great life events brings change. But not every women becomes a very different person post-baby, and it is not necessary to become a very different person in order to love and care for a baby/child. Even in the early postpartum weeks for *some* women, I do not believe that total submission of self is a good or necessary thing.

The main reason my previous post said 'leaving semantics aside' was b/c there is no consensus on the terms 'EDyummies' or 'yummy mummy' within this thread. Depending on what people think a yummy mummy is, the term is either funny at best, derogatory at worst, and often ambivalent. I wanted to write (and for people to read) my post as much as possible with clarity and without emotive terminology upon which there is no consesus meaning. I offer my post only b/c it is a different point of view. Variety being the spice of life and all that... xx

[new mother]

In cave terms, surely total - not just partial, SW- submission of the mother to the egotistical monster is best?

This way, the squealer gets at least one strong adoring parent to protect him or her.

I'm surprised that women fight this. I went along with it and still do, albeit with analytical resentment (!).

Otoh, perhaps I am being illogical and inconsistent saying that. I certainly fought other "cave" aspects eg method of giving birth. Each to her own?

[mockney piers]

and some of us dads have been known to look after the wee bairns too you know.

Plus I haven't worn high heels or lipstick for aaaages!

I do talk about poo a lot though and am not afraid to put bottom to nose in public ;).

[KatsuQueen]

Saffron,

"MILF!"

hahahahahaha! Love it!

(Sorry, I'm a few posts behind.)

[beeandson]

anyone care to explain what MILF stands for?

apart from that, has it been agreed on that glass of wine?

[hellosailor]

MILF: Mother I'd Like To F***...

[beeandson]

oh... I see

tbh that's the interpretation I gave to yummy mummy too :)

sad as it sounds, nowdays I would take it as a compliment as apparently I am more of a member of The Invisible Woman Club (ref some Guardian article about 40 something, with children, divorced, no one interested in them that way.... shalla lalla laaa)

[sophiechristophy]

I got called a milf by a white van driver today.....

[hellosailor]

and were you offended or pleased sophiechristophy? I have to say I'd be pleased, which is possibly not very 'girl power' of me but there you go :)

[new mother]

Surely men are constantly "on the look out" and it is the role of the woman to choose whether the man's gene pool is good enough?

[Saffron]

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In cave terms, surely total - not just partial,

> SW- submission of the mother to the egotistical

> monster is best?

> This way, the squealer gets at least one strong

> adoring parent to protect him or her.

Yes and no. Our species is gragarious, not solitary. So in 'cave terms' there would have been a clan of women all helping eachother. In naturally gregarious species, where it would be to the detriment of the group to have the mother overly-focused on the baby/child, then other women (and, yes, men) would have helped too. And that's the wonderful thing about humans, that we are flexible and not all made the same. But we don't all have large families anymore or live near extended groups of friends who can help. So, sometimes, the mother becomes the only and highly-focused carer b/c there is no one else to do so. And in this case, many women will struggle with an identity crisis. There are as many different solutions to postpartum identity crises as there are women in the world! xx

[Moi23]

I distinctly remember deciding I wanted to be a 'yummy mummy' (taking the MILF interpretation) during my first pregnancy. Since then I can safely say I have failed miserably on this decision except on rare occassions, like weddings and fancy parties (and children with grandparents). I'm generally okay about that, what does get to me is that I have little else going through my brain other than my children. I'm biding my time as I know it will fill up again with none child related topics as they get older, its just part of job I guess.

[cuppa tea]

Saffron Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> new mother Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > In cave terms, surely total - not just partial,

> > SW- submission of the mother to the egotistical

> > monster is best?

> > This way, the squealer gets at least one strong

> > adoring parent to protect him or her.

>

> Yes and no. Our species is gragarious, not

> solitary. So in 'cave terms' there would have

> been a clan of women all helping eachother. In

> naturally gregarious species, where it would be to

> the detriment of the group to have the mother

> overly-focused on the baby/child, then other women

> (and, yes, men) would have helped too. And that's

> the wonderful thing about humans, that we are

> flexible and not all made the same. But we don't

> all have large families anymore or live near

> extended groups of friends who can help. So,

> sometimes, the mother becomes the only and

> highly-focused carer b/c there is no one else to

> do so. And in this case, many women will struggle

> with an identity crisis. There are as many

> different solutions to postpartum identity crises

> as there are women in the world! xx

Thanks Saffron, that is amazingly well explained. It makes sense then why there is so much focus now on mothering. We are probably all a little bit lost, out on our own in our nuclear family units, without any real feeling that we are contributing to our 'group'. I have found the parenting world to be very 'me me me mine mine mine'. The moments of other mums/dads reaching out are rarer than I would have hoped. I think that the being 'overly focused' on your child is fairly unavoidable, but it's probably adding to the selfishness problem for future generations.

[sillywoman]

It's also possibly a survival strategy cuppa tea? I can only speak for myself here, but I know that I found myself so alarmed at having sole responsibility for my first newborn (no family or friends around at all) that I think (with hindsight) I shut down to everything except the need to keep myself and my daughter alive and well for the first 6 months. I was very 'me me me mine mine mine' because I just had to be to survive - or so I felt.

So maybe it's a natural product of moving so far distant from the closer knit communal groups that as a species we're designed to live in?

[helena handbasket]

Sillywoman you're speaking for me as well.

I had loads of interesting and "cool" friends but none of them were green from exhaustion, hormonal, looking physically awful and battling pnd. They were still drinking wine in art galleries.

What I felt I needed was someone, anyone, who was going through what I was going through. I didn't need a CV, the only important trait for mum friends was the requirement that they felt as "in over their heads" as I felt.

I think you have to search pretty far and wide to find the woman who wasn't worried about losing herself or mourn the loss of who she once was on some level. That's why a post looking for "cool" mums who are still interesting ruffles a few feathers. It's not a few enlightened women who feel this, in spite of what I kind of feel those posts imply.

[new mother]

All this is just tinkering with the edges (including my posts).

Surely the key differentiating aspect is sleep. Get enough sleep and you can at least choose to be cool if you want to. wake twice a night with a six monther or older and I wldnt have felt very cool or even human.

[littleEDfamily]

I can relate to wd152, as well as to pretty much what everyone else has had to say. Everyone copes with motherhood in different ways, and if wd152 needs to get away from poo and 'how many ounces' talk for a little while, good for her - it can make you feel like you have entered a strange and bizarre universe that you want to run screaming from. I felt a bit the same at one time. Then I embraced my uncoolness for a while and now I like to think I have found a happy medium between 'mumsy mum' and 30 something with a 'life'.

[Helen GV]

Ewww I hate the use of 'milf'.

Ewww ewww ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

Don't know why it just gives me the creeps.

[kittysailing]

Come again?

[littleEDfamily]

Que?

[Otta]

First time I heard "yummy mummy" was on a stag do in 2004, and that was definitely meant in a "MILF" way. Since then, it has becoe more derogatory, because people use it to describe a certain type of other that they dislike.

First tie I heard "MILF", was in the film American Pie. Nuff said.

I take my hat off to the OP, and to Josie for being honest about their feelings. Yes they may find themselves talking about poo in the future, but that doesn't mean they should aspire to it. As is often the case in the family room, a group of people take offence to anyone suggesting that they might not want to do things the same way.

[CanelitaPR]

Many people wouldn't like to be in someonelse shoes as this can cause a lot of stress and most people would not like to experience what others went through. I hope they get the message not to wate time here as keeping what they have now outside london is more worth it than been with an obsessive sick person.

[beeandson]

just bringing up this again as I still hoping for that glass of vino to happen...

before snow settles in

anyone?

[Smiler]

Hear hear new mother. Sleep deprivation is horrible :'(

[Saffron]

Otta, just seen your post. Made me chuckle outloud to myself ;-)

Beeandson (or others?) always happy to share a glass of vino!!

:-)