Football Focus

[SimonM]

Denis Compton...???!!! All the Brylcreem? And didn't he also play football for a certain North London side? :))

[Atila Reincarnate]

SimonM Wrote:

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> Denis Compton...???!!! All the Brylcreem? And

> didn't he also play football for a certain North

> London side? :))

Indeed he did, and didn't he also play cricket for England?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I couldn't help but notice this when scrolling through the last two pages.

Coincidence it may be, but 3 broken legs in the last 5-6 seasons, is not in anyone's head and isn't in any way par for the course. If I was on the end of that kind of coincidence I would be suspicious too

Now, if one of these broken legs was Rooney or Gerrard, and if it happens this weekend, whoever the person who "mistimes" the tackle will not be the recipient of so many well-wishes from English pundits

[Sandperson]

Why can't it be bad luck? You only have to look at the challenge on Ramsey to see that those sorts of tackles go in every weekend. They don't all end in horrible leg breaks but one in every few hundred will.

Anyway, my point wasn't about the injuries it was about the mentality of the Arsenal team. As I said, I think they are a good footballing side, otherwise they wouldn't be as high up the table as they are but I think the manager and certain of the players do the team no good by going on about being targeted. If you say something enough, people start to believe it and I think all this talk has got under Arsenals skin.

I am not dissing your team. I am not dissing you manager. I am merely expressing an opinion.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm not saying it can't be. That's why I said "coincidence it may be" in my last post

Once is bad luck. Twice is beyond bad luck. Three times and it still might be very bad luck but I think some sympathy beyond saying "bad luck old chap" is in order

And my second point stands - if it's an English senior player hobbled in this way, just once, no-one will be talking about badluck. The player commiting that foul will be run out of the country if he happens to be foreign

[Sandperson]

Are you saying I'm not being symapathetic enough? I don't get it?

[jimmy two times]

I don't like Wenger's usual whinging, but I do think this time is right. I think dinosaur managers such as Tony Pulis, Sam Allardyce et al will emphasize to their team in the dressing room before the game that Arsenal 'don't like it up 'em'

I wouldn't go as far to say that they will encourage leg breaking tackles. But the inference is there that hard challenges are the order of the day. I think that will then promote the kind of reckless and clumsy challenges that we witnessed with Ramsey and Eduardo.

I watched Malaga v Barcelona at the weekend and the Malaga defenders worked their socks off against Barca. They never lunged in recklessly. They jockeyed, pressed, diverted and closed down all with great skill and they rarely dived in and mostly stayed on their feet. They lost 2-1 but it was an impressive defensive display as it could have been a much heavier defeat. Good defending is a skill.

For once old Vinegar face has a point.

[Atila Reincarnate]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> >

> I'm not saying it can't be. That's why I said

> "coincidence it may be" in my last post

>

> Once is bad luck. Twice is beyond bad luck. Three

> times and it still might be very bad luck but I

> think some sympathy beyond saying "bad luck old

> chap" is in order

>

> And my second point stands - if it's an English

> senior player hobbled in this way, just once,

> no-one will be talking about badluck. The player

> commiting that foul will be run out of the country

> if he happens to be foreign

Couln't agree more, it also goes back to my point about Wenger getting so much stick when he has the audacity to put his head up over the parapet and say he is unhappy that it's happened to his players as often as it has. Like I said previously, if a British mananger had been in his position, let's say Ferguson, O'Neil, Moyes et al, and had said what he has. Do you honestly believe they would get the stick Wengers received? I can't see and I'm sorry it's a case of Johnny Foreigner syndrome.

[Ted Max]

Jamie Carragher and Alan Smith had their legs broken by foreign players.

Were Lucas Neill and J-A Riise run out of the country?

[SeanMacGabhann]

sandperson - I'm not trying to pick on you at all it was just the comment about things being in "their heads" struck me as a bit unreasonable

[Atila Reincarnate]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> I don't like Wenger's usual whinging, but I do

> think this time is right. I think dinosaur

> managers such as Tony Pulis, Sam Allardyce et al

> will emphasize to their team in the dressing room

> before the game that Arsenal 'don't like it up

> 'em'

> I wouldn't go as far to say that they will

> encourage leg breaking tackles. But the inference

> is there that hard challenges are the order of the

> day. I think that will then promote the kind of

> reckless and clumsy challenges that we witnessed

> with Ramsey and Eduardo.

> I watched Malaga v Barcelona at the weekend and

> the Malaga defenders worked their socks off

> against Barca. They never lunged in recklessly.

> They jockeyed, pressed, diverted and closed down

> all with great skill and they rarely dived in and

> mostly stayed on their feet. They lost 2-1 but it

> was an impressive defensive display as it could

> have been a much heavier defeat. Good defending is

> a skill.

> For once old Vinegar face has a point.

Glory be to God on High, someone thinks Wenger has a point. Miracles will never cease.

[titch juicy]

let's get a couple of important facts straight

1. wenger condoned exactly that sort of tackling when he had players that could tackle like that- viera, petit etc

2. arsenal aren't winning trophies because wenger seems to pathologically refuse buying the correct players to win things in england

3. arsenal being vulnerable to 'those types of teams' is a weird myth- they beat stoke home and away this season, as well as bolton home and away and thrashed allardyce's blackburn. They've lost to the footballing sides (united, chelsea, city) that are simply better at their own (arsenal's) game than them. ARSENAL ARE NOT VULNERABLE TO TOUGH TACKLING SIDES. Sorry for capitalising that, but if i see that quoted once more i'm gonna pull my hair out.

[Jah Lush]

I think Wenger's constant whinging about referees and other team's players and managers has got in the way of any sympathy he may have had coming his way and it's really got nothing to do with being foreign. Alex Ferguson is exactly the same. Still, Eduardo and Ramsey's injuries were/are particularly nasty and I hope that the lad can make a speedy recovery.

[jimmy two times]

I heard his surgery went well and he will make a full recovery.

[Sandperson]

Sorry Sean, I'm sure it's the way I'm expressing myself. I don't think that Arseanl are imagining things i.e. it's in their heads. What I am trying to say is that the idea that teams like to play hard against Arsenal, which I've acknowleged I think is true, has led to a certain level of mental weakness in the side which is detrimental to them and sometimes leaves them with problems on the field when it comes to dealing with this type of play.

I would have thought that a better idea for Arsenal and Wenger would be to discuss this behind closed doors and work on methods to deal with it rather than talking about it in the press and interviews which I think only makes the issue bigger from a psychological point of view and makes teams think that the tactics work. It's a slightly seperate issue to the Ramsey injury but that has highlighted the problem again.

I am very sympathetic about Ramsey. It must be a horrible thing to go through and I hope he comes back to be the player he looked like he was going to be.

Am I making sense?

[jimmy two times]

My son had the very same injury playing football. It was very traumatic when it happened as he was only 16 at the time. It took him a full year to recover physically and psychologically.

[SeanMacGabhann]

titch juice - you are conflating your own opinion with facts

Sandperson

you are indeed making sense. Although as titch points out Arsenal are no longer vulnerable to dropping points against these teams. But Wenger isn't claiming that. In fact he often claims his team has improved in that area

The claim he makes is that because some teams have to get "in their faces" instead of playing "pretty football" the chances of this kind of thing happening to Arsenal increase. I think that argument has merit

[ruffers]

Seems to me Arsenal need to beware the self fulfilling prophesy as well, going into a game thinking "They're gonna kick me", "they're bigger and stronger than me" can't be a good thing.

[Jah Lush]

Jeez! Even the Gooners fans have taken on Wenger's seige mentality and are running with it.

[Sandperson]

ruffers Wrote:

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> Seems to me Arsenal need to beware the self

> fulfilling prophesy as well, going into a game

> thinking "They're gonna kick me", "they're bigger

> and stronger than me" can't be a good thing.

This is what I have been trying to say over the past two pages! :))

[Narnia]

On a completely different topic. I use the BBC's sports website quite a bit. However, it seems that a lot of the time if you click on a link there's nothing there. Anyone have this problem and know why it happens?

[SeanMacGabhann]

But if that siege mentality was true would they be putting themselves in positions where their legs are broken? I don't think so. Seems people are missing the point

[jimmy two times]

I don't think the point is being missed. Some teams kick Arsenal up in the air because they like to pass the ball and there is a suspicion that they are physically weak. I think Wenger has a point about this, but he does so love playing the victim and he could be creating a victim mentaility in his players. He didn't seem to mind hard physical play when he had the likes of Viera and Keown in the team. He's on record at the time as saying that the physical,passionate aspect of English football is what he loves. I think that's what gives people the hump. Makes him sound like a bit of a hypocrite.

[ratty]

Man's Game - get over it Gooners! :p

[Atila Reincarnate]

ratty Wrote:

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> Man's Game - get over it Gooners! :p

Mans game, hmmmm, it may have escaped your notice but women also play this game. Yes football is a contact sport but I'm afraid having your leg/foot/ribs/arm or any other part or your body broken doesn't make you , or the player guilty of causing the break any more of a "man" and if you believe football is a "man's" game, why did you make such a fuss of Mendes getting assaulted by Thatcher. Sean, I think there are many on here who don't get the point because their team hasn't been on the wrong end of leg breaking challenges 3 times in 5 years. They'd be squealing like girls if it was their club. God knows how Ferguson would react. He already thinks every referee is against his side.