It's 4.30am and the heathrow flight path appears to be in use

[fabfor]

Indeed, Bob. Without protest, this would be a much sadder world.

[JT76]

futile [ˈfjuːtaɪl]

adj

1. having no effective result; unsuccessful

2. pointless; unimportant; trifling

3. inane or foolish

[edcam]

I like the sound of the planes.

[fabfor]

Defeatist: 1. Defeated.

[fabfor]

edcam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I like the sound of the planes.

Ironically, I love aircraft; they're magical. But let's be real - should builders be allowed to start noisy work at 4.30am?

8am is the established time for London and I find that reasonable. What a reasonable time for aircraft? (I know the answer's "any time" for the truly "chilled-out").

[JT76]

it is a rubbish analogy. builders don't need to start at 4:30. planes coming from the other side of the planet however do need to land early, especially if you don't want to reduce airport capacity. are you planning on banning lorries from driving at 4:30? cars? motorbikes? how much trade and economic activity should be sacrificed because that is what you find reasonable?

[fabfor]

Chilled out?

[stephent]

JT76 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> it is a rubbish analogy. builders don't need to

> start at 4:30. planes coming from the other side

> of the planet however do need to land early,

> especially if you don't want to reduce airport

> capacity. are you planning on banning lorries

> from driving at 4:30? cars? motorbikes? how much

> trade and economic activity should be sacrificed

> because that is what you find reasonable?

The policy exchange wrote a paper on extending Heathrow, and points out that the planes don't need to start at 4.30 either...

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publications/category/item/bigger-and-quieter-the-right-answer-for-aviation

[fabfor]

Thanks for this, Stephen. Interesting options that address the problems seriously.

[uncleglen]

The ear plugs are called 'lazer lights' (sorry for lateness in replying)

[edcam]

fabfor Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edcam Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I like the sound of the planes.

>

> Ironically, I love aircraft; they're magical. But

> let's be real - should builders be allowed to

> start noisy work at 4.30am?

> 8am is the established time for London and I find

> that reasonable. What a reasonable time for

> aircraft? (I know the answer's "any time" for the

> truly "chilled-out").

Builders would be a nightmare at that time but planes don't other me. I'm not saying they shouldn't bother you but personally I don't get it. Maybe I would if I lived near Heathrow but not here.

[Medley]

Assuming the early morning landings have been running for considerably longer than this thread (which they have - many years longer) but you've only just started noticing them recently, the best advice is really to try to stop noticing them again, like you didn't before. Somehow. And hope they don't increase. Which of course, they surely will.

If only the above were true. But the point is that the planes are now low much further east - i.e. over ED. That's why it's such a current issue here.

[*Bob*]

As far as I understand, CDA, the landing system currently favoured which has led to planes being lower further away from Heathrow - has been in operation for approaching a decade.

I don't know how long the permitted early morning landing quota has been running - but years also.

The point being.. If you only started noticing it a year ago, you just weren't tuned into it before then is all.

[*Bob*]

I'd rather not have any more though.

I unashamedly take the NIMBY position that it would be far better to have more planes servicing London at another airport, ruining someone else's sleep, just out of earshot.

[albert spangler]

maxtedc Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> is this the new norm? I didn't think large planes

> were allowed to land at this time. It's not the

> first time either.

This will tell you which planes wake you up! http://www.flightradar24.com/

[SLAMMED]

albert spangler Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> maxtedc Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > is this the new norm? I didn't think large

> planes

> > were allowed to land at this time. It's not the

> > first time either.

>

>

> This will tell you which planes wake you up!

> http://www.flightradar24.com/

? SLAMMED 2012

[albert spangler]

SLAMMED Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> albert spangler Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > maxtedc Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > is this the new norm? I didn't think large

> > planes

> > > were allowed to land at this time. It's not

> the

> > > first time either.

> >

> >

> > This will tell you which planes wake you up!

> > http://www.flightradar24.com/

>

>

> ? SLAMMED 2012

Hi again Slammed. The map actually seems to be © Google and, for the UK, Barsasoft. I would imagine that if it really was © you the you wouldn't be frequenting a niche internet forum such as this at ten minutes to midnight on a school night.

[SLAMMED]

Reported

[albert spangler]

Apologies if I've misunderstood, Slammed.

[fabfor]

Fair enough on the NIMBY position, Bob.

I suppose my attitude is NIABY - not in anyone's backyard at 4.30 in the morning.

(I can hear them now; it's 5am!)

[Only me!]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/heathrow-sets-flightpaths-for-early-morning-planes-8381177.html

Saw this on the EStandard site.

Maybe a little early morning respite is on the cards?

No maps to help determine exactly where the zones will be .... but fingers crossed.

[fl0wer]

Good link - recommended, EDF readers...

Thanks for posting, Only me!

[i*Rate]

Hi folks,

I'm pretty fed up with aircraft noise after spending the past few years being at home all day; it's never been this bad and I have been in ED for 32 years. I did write to Boris Johnson and emailed the Civil Aviation Authority and got some very detailed information. The facts are that airliners can be flown over London 24 hour/day if the airlines wish to, but in their infinite mercy they've seem to have restricted it to around 6.30am - 10.30pm with an hour or so at 4.30-5.30. This is on days when wind direction is suitable (roughly westerly)- most days, so it seems. You can't complain about the noise either as it does'nt count as noise pollution. The 'planes are stacked up over two areas above London then they drop down to low altitude somewhere east of ED then fly over Brixton, Clapham, Battersea and Barnes flying over tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of Londoners, at a rate of some 30-40/hour, so noise is near enough continuous. I wrote to Boris I pointed out how foolish we must look to the people of other European capital cities that have their main airports on the outskirts. Sadly, it was one of those unfortunate/stupid decisions to site Heathrow Airport to the west of London so that airliners nearly always come into land (and get stacked now) over densely populated boroughs of the city. Don't expect any apologies or compensation from the airlines though, just listen to them winging on about how difficult it is for them to make money! But if are one of the new, well off newcomers to ED at lease you can have fanct double-glazing fitted.

Fasten your seat belts! Exits are here, here and here (sell up and move)!

[Burbage]

The maps for the Early Morning Noise Respite Trial are buried in a powerpoint document linked from the foot of a sub-page of the noise action section of the BAA website.

Apologies for the shocking quality, but I've cut out and enlarged the relevant bits. East Dulwich is approximately two thirds along from the left of the blue box, though its exact location remains a subject of some dispute.

Before Trial:

During Trial:

 

[*Bob*]

Thanks for that, Burbage.

Perhaps we can forward this thread to the Hither Green Forum when the trial starts - get them off to a flying (audible groan) start?