Green and Blue closure?

[KalamityKel]

transport challenged neck of the woods? Wot u on about?

[Jeremy]

> transport challenged neck of the woods

The transport in ED is fairly poor, especially for rush-hour commuting into central London. Or on a Sunday.

But apart from that, I can't agree with "8 Track Cartrige Family". I'm afraid that you come across as rather selfish and arrogant.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Bloody hell, calm down. Its only a wine bar, its not an A&E Department after all.

I too find myself in conflict with those that would like ED to be like it was in the "good old days" when the place was on its arse and everybody was malnurished and made match boxes for a living. Keef doesnt happen to be one of those people. He is (unusually) an actual "local" (unlike most of us including me) and in my experience, has always enjoyed and respected the best of the past and the present. He doesnt use the G&B as so is possibly able to be a little more objective about it than some of us.

Instinctively I am pro-G&B. I like their wine (especially on a Tuesday), I like the ambience of the place, the food and the staff (especially Rebecca, the foxiest bar person on the Lane ::o). However, in my opinion the G&B campaign was at times rather overly passionate and we only ever really heard one side of the story. Hopefully, their drain problems will get sorted out in time.

I dont think local transport is that bad. You can get the 176 to Oxford Street direct and there are many other buses that then connect with the tube system, we have ED, Denmark Hill, Peckham, Forest Hill and Nunhead over-ground stations all within hitting distance. OK, we dont have a tube station, but that was the case before any of us were born and for those of us that moved here by choice (i.e most of us) we cant say that we didnt know.

I get hacked off the with the lack of investment in the SE London transport network, it could be better, but is not poor. Try living in a rural village with a bus that does 2 return journeys a day, thats poor.

More importantly, where did Rebecca go? :'(

[mockney piers]

I didn't spot anything selfish about that. Unapologetic for his opinions perhaps (totally with you on the record store), but selfish?

[Jeremy]

It's statements like "move on or move out" which kind of get my back up to be honest. I think it shows a lack of respect for people who have lived in the area for longer than you or I.

[BJL]

There was an independent record/book store on LL only a few years ago but it closed because not enough people used it. Obviously 8TFC (having only moved here about 3 months ago) wouldn't know that. I can't see any reason why another would survive on LL in 2008.

[Ultraconsultancy]

You're right BJL, independent record stores are one of those businesses which lots of people think would be successful, but which just can't make it in the retail rental market today. indy bookstores look to the decline of record shops in the age of digital downloads and crepe themselves, i tell you. the damage has been fatally done.

[pearcesa]

I would also have to agree that East Dulwich is 'transport challenged' espeically if you work in the West End, it takes and age on the bus & catching the train to London Bridge means catching the Jubilee line which is frankly overcrowded and unreliable.

Keeping on the subject of Green and Blue, I think it's an asset to the area and I think it's a real shame that it's facing these dreadful difficulties.

I have lived in East Dulwich for over 12 years now and would say the 'gentrification' of the area has both it's pluses and minuses.

[Michael Palaeologus]

"Overcrowded and unreliable" - that would seem to describe all of the London transport system, so we arent much worse off really.

[reds]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Keef Wrote>

>

> Some people may not like G&B, or some of the other

> businesses around, that doesn't automatically make

> them horrid scum who want pound shops and nail

> bars (whatever they are), and amusement arcades.

Why on earth would anybody 'dislike' Green and Blue that much. It is completely irrelevant as to whether you like or don't like wine or wine bars (i've only visited a couple of times myself and much prefer a pint to a glass of wine), a top notch establishment like Green & Blue surely can't offend anyone. I'm not a lover of afternoon tea or women's clothes but am delighted by the arrival of Le Chandelier and Mrs Robinson's Boutique to the area as they, along with ED Warehouse, ED Deli, The Palmerston, ED, Grace & Favour, The Bishop, William Rose etc etc improve East Dulwich and make it a more pleasant place to live, shop, drink and eat.

[Keef]

For Christ's sake. I'll say this again. I do not dislike or have anything at all against Green & Blue okay?

I don't know why anyone would dislike it, maybe they're offended by the colour of the sign, or they didn't like the staff, I don't know, but again, if someone doesn't like it, that's their look out, and it doesn't say anything at all about the sort of person they are, or what they'd like to see on Lordship Lane. It just says they don't like Green & Blue, end of.

[legalbeagle]

Kilgore Trout - you are exactly right. The responsibility for sorting out Green & Blue's problems sits with their Landlord, and it must be pretty galling for G&B to pay the huge rents now demanded on Lordship Lane, only to get such a rubbish response from their landlord when something goes wrong with his building. Looks to me like he's happy to take the money but doesn't really care what happens after that. Pretty shortsighted, because if G&B do go under then who is going to want to rent a place where the landlord is clearly so unreliable? He is risking his own income as well as someone else's business. Until it is sorted out lets show our support for a local business and if you buy wine from the supermarket then stop doing that and buy from G&B instead. I bought a bottle for ?5.99 the other day so it won't cost any more than buying it at Sainsbury.

[snorky]

deja vu

Snorky suspects that there is an agenda behind some posters here.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Too right ............ FIND REBECCA!!!!

[reds]

snorky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> deja vu

>

> Snorky suspects that there is an agenda behind

> some posters here.

I suspect there isn't. I suspect that Green & Blue is fantastic and people don't want it to close down.

[Ultraconsultancy]

Legalbeagle - can't comment on the specifics of G&B's lease but it's quite likely to be expensive, long term with upwards only reviews, and FRI [Full Repairing and Insuring]. These clauses mean that the tenant takes on the liability for insuring and repairing the premises, from the roof to the drains. So when something happens like a collapsed drain then the tenants choices are to fix it, or pay the landlord to fix it. And try getting a shop lease without the dreaded FRI? can't be done I suspect. so criticising or pressurising the landlord will just annoy him. This is the modern world...

[EDOldie]

A landlord could of course make capital improvements to a property and work out a new rent to amortise the cost. More enlightened landlords will fund these sorts of structural improvements to improve the property and keep a good tenant going.

[Ultraconsultancy]

Makes sense to me Oldie; but try finding an enlightened landlord on the high street.

[EDOldie]

Well if they stay short termist it will, eventually, be to their detriment. The Dulwich Estate has IMO had a policy of 'preferring' corporate tenants, probably because they are more likely to pay the rent and will probably pay higher rents. The result is that it's very difficult to actually shop in the Village and there are no independent restaurants. It would be a tradgedy if the Lane went the same way. There are a few shops that own their own freeholds but high premiums to secure premises and high rents could quickly make the alternative much more attractive. I've only heard rumours of what GBK and others are paying and have had to pay in terms of premium for a lease but the figures sound astronomical by any reasonable standards. If the butcher wanted to sell for instance there'd be a bigger queue than Saturday morning.

[legalbeagle]

Ultraconsultancy - you are of course right that a tenant usually takes responsibility for repairing the premises he has leased, including drains. However, my understanding is that it is not the drains under G&B where there is a problem, but that there is a blockage elsewhere in the drains that service that row of shops, and unfortunately the water/waste that backs up is ending up in G&B - or would be if they weren't having it pumped out. In that case, the landlord is responsible for ensuring that the problem is rectified because the problem does not exist in a part of the leased property. As matter of property law, in general tenants don't have the right to force other property owners to assist with such problems, that is something that a freeholder ie landlord has to do. finally, the problem interferes with the tenants right to quiet enjoyment of the property that is leased, which is a right that a tenant has whether or not it is written in the lease, and the landlord is likely to be in breach of that right.

My guess is that if G&B were able to fix the problem, they would have done. You wouldn't shut your business unless you had no other choice.

[SeanMacGabhann]

G&B fought the landlord very hard to even get the extended premises - they wanted a corporate client (think maccie d's, Starbucks, Costa etc)

My suspicion is they are doing the bare minimum to assist G&B, out of spite. If it was a coprorate name with the same problem they would have bent over backwards to sort it out

That is an opinion and not based on any evidence or facts.

[snorky]

So who drawls through the G&B Blog then?

oh dear.

"My faith in humanity and in what we are doing has been restored ? now we just need a proper rest and then we will be ready for 2008. We ended the year feeling really rotten ? although New Years Eve was good fun in both sites and Jude and I both managed a sort of forced, probably slightly edgy jollity, we were feeling pretty grim.

I have been directed to postings on the good old East Dulwich Forum concerning the fact that we are now closed and note that I am thought of as both hysterical and rude by some its members, so perhaps I should choose my words carefully now."

Curb your opinions people.

[*Bob*]

Did everyone know that you can buy a bottle of wine in G&B for ?5.99 which is far nicer than you would get in a supermarket?

Just checking.. in case you all missed it the first time. Ah.. I mean, er, second time.

[legalbeagle]

Snorky - the blog also says that G&B are very grateful for the "numerous very postings we have received". Bit of unfair editing on your part I think!

[legalbeagle]

Sorry should have read "very positive postings"!