Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless

[TE44]

Johnl, If I lost my card no one could buy anything although i'd still worry about fraud as I'm not up on scams. I find it amazing that nothing can be done about telephone scams. My sons bank was scammed, there was some cheques put into his bank which gradually got bigger withdrawn after a few days. Then one was put in for over a couple of grand, it was spent outside of london in apple shops etc and was allowed to go into credit of a few hundred pounds. He was not working at the time. He was treated like a criminal it took months to prve his innocence, there was no apology for the stress that was caused.

[paulu197]

I'm also not a fan of the internet and would prefer it that forums like this would be face to face with an agenda and minutes taken

[JohnL]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Johnl, If I lost my card no one could buy anything

> although i'd still worry about fraud as I'm not up

> on scams. I find it amazing that nothing can be

> done about telephone scams. My sons bank was

> scammed, there was some cheques put into his bank

> which gradually got bigger withdrawn after a few

> days. Then one was put in for over a couple of

> grand, it was spent outside of london in apple

> shops etc and was allowed to go into credit of a

> few hundred pounds. He was not working at the

> time. He was treated like a criminal it took

> months to prve his innocence, there was no apology

> for the stress that was caused.

They sometimes don't seem to trust younger people - I was refused a rebate many years ago on the premise I wasn't careful enough with my pin - I gave up in the end as it wasn't much.

More recently (2 years ago) someone took ?4K from over the counter at a branch a month after I had my card stolen and cancelled - I couldn't do that with a valid card if I tried - the bank refunded it the moment I called - totally different attitude to when I was younger. Then had a scammer targeting my account and (I think) my mail for 3 months and almost got to know people in the fraud department by name :(. Some of the scammers must be pretty persuasive and have multiple contacts.

[Soylent Green]

Good luck with that, but I will not be supporting your plight. I have no problem with the cafe going cashless - especially considering its vulnerable, isolated position. Agree with many that people without access to a card are unlikely to offer their custom, and let's not forget that most teenagers even have debit/cash cards. My only concern is for the staff who may miss out on tips.

[micromacromonkey]

TE44 Wrote:

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> I have a card you can only take money out with,

> that suits me. If card is lost there will be no

> immediate alternative. Not everyone has nor wants

> access to computers or has smart phones. Sorry

> havent read all this thread but just saying.

If you don't *want* access to a computer or smart phone (there are people like this in my department... I work in the IT department FFS!) then that's your choice, you can't go to the cafe. You are disenfranchising *yourself*, which is quite another matter to being disenfranchised because you are ineligible for a card/phone/whatever.

[JohnL]

micromacromonkey Wrote:

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> TE44 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I have a card you can only take money out with,

> > that suits me. If card is lost there will be no

> > immediate alternative. Not everyone has nor

> wants

> > access to computers or has smart phones. Sorry

> > havent read all this thread but just saying.

>

> If you don't *want* access to a computer or smart

> phone (there are people like this in my

> department... I work in the IT department FFS!)

> then that's your choice, you can't go to the cafe.

> You are disenfranchising *yourself*, which is

> quite another matter to being disenfranchised

> because you are ineligible for a

> card/phone/whatever.

That's rather cruel.

Pensioners and others who can't keep up do need to be looked after until GenY and GenZ take over the world.

[TE44]

Micromacromonkey I didn'actually say i didnt want access or smartphone (I am using my phone now) I do know a lot of people who don't though and of course its a choice they had but now no longer have. I took my sister into Tart the cafe in Lordship lane, it was a treat, she was visiting, I had no idea it was card only and of course I couldnt pay, there was a tiny little sign which I hadn't noticed. Didn't bother me apart from the fact my sister had to pay, its not really my thing and no probs.I don't know the cafe mentioned here but if it has changed from cash paying to non cash paying I think people would feel there choice to use the cafe had been taken from them.

[BolivarIsMissing]

There have been some really great comments on this thread that I hadn't either known or really thought about regarding the 'unbanked', so thank you for that. It does seem to me that a cafe in a council-ownded/run public space like Peckham Rye should be accessible for all, and that should include both the cost of the food and drink and how to pay.

Maybe one of the councillors on the EDF could raise this? @JamesBarber or @RenataHamvas?

[fishbiscuits]

Regarding cost of food... to some extent the cost and quality go together, and I'm happy to pay for something decent. If it was like the cafe in Crystal Palace park (basically a selection of various deep-fried items with beans and chips) we simply wouldn't use it. But you need to strike a balance... it's too expensive. Even a can of coke is something daft like ?2.

[Pugwash]

I can remember many years ago my mum needed a new fridge and I took her to purchase one at a large electrical outlet.

Neither of us realised until we went to pay that the shop had stopped taking cheques supported by a cheque guarantee card (many years later this facility was phased out). The cashier demanded cash or credit card, mum did not carry $100 plus cash on her, and neither did she have a credit card as her only income were retirement pensions. Mum was in tears and everyone was looking at her. Fortunately I had my bank card with me and I paid for the fridge. Mum was very angry and said in a loud voice that she hoped that when the cashier was old, she would not be treated as a second class citizen because she was receiving a pension.

Mum was very wary after that about purchasing goods, an although her meagre occupational pension was paid into her bank account, she drew her retirement pension from the post office. Eventually I became the second card holder for her state retirement pension and when ever we had to get expensive items, I would pay by card and Mum gave me the money.

Mum at that time (prior to her death in 2011) only had a couple of hundred pounds in her bank account and was not eligible for a debit card. Imagine how she would feel going into a caf? for a treat and not being able to pay cash for a cup of tea and a cake. I think all premises should prominently display a notice on their window and on the menu that they do not take cash. I can understand shops etc wanting card payments but equally they should state that for purchases under ?20 they would be happy to take cash - this leaves it up to the customer to make the choice.

[DulwichFox]

It's a strange situation all round.

Any concern that having Cash on the premises will encourage robbery is ridiculous.

It is likely that many customers will want to pay by Card or by using an App on their phone.

It is therefore very unlikely there will be much cash held at the premises.

Any would be thief is more likely to attack a shop which is more likely to hold more cash

and where it would be easier to disappear into the crowd.

Haven't been to the Peckham Rye Cafe for 4 -5 years. I understand the Car Park has been made smaller.

Am also under the impression that The Recycling facilities have been removed. But not sure about that.

It became an eyesore due to the waste infrequently being collected.

I do not drive anymore but I think the car park may be a essential to other elderly people.

Peckham Rye Park is lovely, much much nicer than Dulwich Park which is quite boring.

I can see a time soon when fewer and fewer people will be attracted to the Park.

DulwichPark

[siousxiesue]

BolivarIsMissing Wrote:

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> There have been some really great comments on this

> thread that I hadn't either known or really

> thought about regarding the 'unbanked', so thank

> you for that. It does seem to me that a cafe in a

> council-ownded/run public space like Peckham Rye

> should be accessible for all, and that should

> include both the cost of the food and drink and

> how to pay.

>

> Maybe one of the councillors on the EDF could

> raise this? @JamesBarber or @RenataHamvas?

Please all, if you share this sentiment the Cllr for parks and equalities is Rebecca Lury. [email protected]

I am currently trying to get her to see the points raised and the strength of feeling, please email her!

[worldwiser]

Hard to imagine how the council would have the power to retrospectively insert a clause into their commercial lease - their Dulwich Park one runs for 7 years, perhaps this one is similar in length. Use of cash, especially for low value transactions, is declining massively and at some point will end completely but the cash infrastructure of the UK (which according to the FT costs around ?5bn) can hardly be expected to carry on until every last person would stop using it. It will disappear in waves. This is surely one of them and there will be more.

Focusing efforts on getting banks to provide basic banking facilities to all is a far better solution than forcing businesses to maintain largely unnecessary and costly cash management processes - especially ones that are in vulnerable and remote locations.

But as I said before, the reason not to use this cafe predates their ending cash transactions. The prices are hilarious and if you're desperate to spend readies then Cafe G is moments away and will gladly take it off your hands.

[Curmudgeon]

siousxiesue Wrote:

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> Does anyone else have a conflicted view over this?

>

>

> I'm afraid this move will restrict certain people

> unfairly, lots of people (myself included) prefer

> to keep an eye on daily coffee spending, not to

> mention being discriminatory to folk without

> access to bank accounts.

>

>

> A straw poll today proved it to be an unpopular

> move and I'm wondering if this was in their

> original application for the contract. does the

> council not have a duty to see all members of it's

> community has access to recreation facilities?

>

>

> Am I overreacting?

Keeping an eye on your spending is easier if you go cashless.

There?s a number of new cards such as Monzo which is basically a cashcard (eg you can only spend money you?ve put on it) work with apps which actually report and categorise your spend immediately

So I think that?s a moot point.

People without access to bank accounts are a different matter all together, but in those cases you are outside the mainstream of society anyway, probably living in risk and have far greater problems than the ability to buy a coffee in a specific cafe

[KalamityKel]

Curmudgeon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Keeping an eye on your spending is easier if you

> go cashless.

>

> There?s a number of new cards such as Monzo which

> is basically a cashcard (eg you can only spend

> money you?ve put on it) work with apps which

> actually report and categorise your spend

> immediately

>

> So I think that?s a moot point.

>

> People without access to bank accounts are a

> different matter all together, but in those cases

> you are outside the mainstream of society anyway,

> probably living in risk and have far greater

> problems than the ability to buy a coffee in a

> specific cafe

Perhaps you might want to spend some time thinking on the above.

Ridiculous assumptions there! Do you really think those that happily tap away with their cards are above those that don't? To assume someone must be at risk because they don't pay by card? REALLY?

[JohnL]

KalamityKel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Curmudgeon Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > Keeping an eye on your spending is easier if

> you

> > go cashless.

> >

> > There?s a number of new cards such as Monzo

> which

> > is basically a cashcard (eg you can only spend

> > money you?ve put on it) work with apps which

> > actually report and categorise your spend

> > immediately

> >

> > So I think that?s a moot point.

> >

> > People without access to bank accounts are a

> > different matter all together, but in those

> cases

> > you are outside the mainstream of society

> anyway,

> > probably living in risk and have far greater

> > problems than the ability to buy a coffee in a

> > specific cafe

>

> Perhaps you might want to spend some time thinking

> on the above.

> Ridiculous assumptions there! Do you really think

> those that happily tap away with their cards are

> above those that don't? To assume someone must be

> at risk because they don't pay by card? REALLY?

ironically the government has forced those on universal credit and state pensions to use bank accounts iirc.

I'd guess the majority of cash users probably have bank accounts but prefer to take money out and spend it.

Why would someone have no bank account - below article suggests you may have had identity theft issues or you may have just made that choice. It can still be done however.

https://www.thebalance.com/how-to-live-with-no-bank-account-3861031

[fishbiscuits]

Interestingly, the Peckham Rye station coffee stand has gone the other way. Now a ?3 minimum... i.e. you can no longer buy a coffee on card. Which means I'll be using it less often. Shame.

[Curmudgeon]

KalamityKel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Curmudgeon Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > Keeping an eye on your spending is easier if

> you

> > go cashless.

> >

> > There?s a number of new cards such as Monzo

> which

> > is basically a cashcard (eg you can only spend

> > money you?ve put on it) work with apps which

> > actually report and categorise your spend

> > immediately

> >

> > So I think that?s a moot point.

> >

> > People without access to bank accounts are a

> > different matter all together, but in those

> cases

> > you are outside the mainstream of society

> anyway,

> > probably living in risk and have far greater

> > problems than the ability to buy a coffee in a

> > specific cafe

>

> Perhaps you might want to spend some time thinking

> on the above.

> Ridiculous assumptions there! Do you really think

> those that happily tap away with their cards are

> above those that don't? To assume someone must be

> at risk because they don't pay by card? REALLY?

And where exactly did I say that? My post was simply factualnfor the 21st century,

Never understood why people just want to get angry and start arguments online over things they actually don?t care about.

[JohnL]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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> Interestingly, the Peckham Rye station coffee

> stand has gone the other way. Now a ?3 minimum...

> i.e. you can no longer buy a coffee on card. Which

> means I'll be using it less often. Shame.

They sell Old Spike coffee which has links to homeless people.

So maybe cash helps more in this case (I have no idea if that is true though).

[JohnL]

Hmm interestingly it's against Mastercard/Visa rules to require a minimum transaction. (2018). Not snitching though as it seems a good cause :)

https://www.mobiletransaction.org/should-you-set-a-minimum-for-card-payments/