ED - You need to up your game

[Gidget]

???? Wrote:

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> I think the best bar or restaurant that East

> Dulwich has to offer is B+ at best. I still like

> it here but there's no great place I could name

What do you consider a great place? Rather subjective I guess, seeing as some people are keen to have Wagamama come here as it is their favourite restaurant.

[maxxi]

???? Wrote:

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> I think the best bar or restaurant that East

> Dulwich has to offer is B+ at best. I still like

> it here but there's no great place I could name

Probably right but it made me think.

Wherever I've lived in London the local bars and restaurants have had that fact as their main attraction.

That I could stagger home from a bar or curry house without coughing up for a cab or squeezing on to a night bus was as important as the standard of beer served, the juke box, the amount of chicken in the balti or meat on the spare-ribs.

I don't think I've ever lived anywhere in London where the pubs/restaurants were so poor that I had to travel very far for satisfaction (and I'm including Canning Town!); and company always played a big part in making an average place a regular haunt.

So I guess if ED wants to enter into some south-London-trendy-suburban-nightlife version of Englands smartest village competition it may indeed need to 'up' its game.

Or not.

[woodrot]

Tippler leaves me cold. Draft house less so, but still a bit meh. Bishop/ GE/ Palmerston / actress are big slabs of fail, dressed in the ill fitting clothes of a public house.The mag is more of a pub, but ?5 for a Baltika is a bit chuckle brothers. EDT has nothing going for it - from the location, to the bovine faced victims who hang around its rotting exterior. Franklins seem to exist for reason I cannot fathom - I have money laundering resturant front operations that do a better job at providing food and drink.BoHo - OhNo - even that staple of a failing business, live jazz , does little to entice you inside, never mind downstairs, where friday seems to be an ongoing private function that you really ought not intrude into. The expensive cocktail emporium formerly known as Inside72 does what it says on the tin I suppose.

Hoopers is best for bottles. Gowlett is a great pub though nothing special beer wise.Franks has decent meantime, blates this is shut now, so probabaly not in the running . FFS, even the student ridden shithole under Rye station has more going for it than Lordship lane.The Montpellier is an easy going delight, sprinkled with its onw private arthouse cinema magic.

Losers and cat fanciers seem to gravitate towards the hollow shell of the supposed vibrant Lordship lane - Peckham may be crawling with hipster filth these days, but at least it retains itse sense of humour nand provides a decent night out.

[Ted Max]

LL is at least famous as the place to go for a really, really shit curry.

[*Bob*]

That's right, Ted.

Legend has it you can eat a shit curry every night of the week and never eat in the same curry house twice.

We're so lucky, here on The Laaaaaane.

[Ted Max]

Long after ED has collapsed and drowned in its own belly button sweat the curry houses of LL will still be dispensing their salt-and-sugar effluent to depressed teachers and Jenny Eclair.

And like a cockroach emerging from a pit toilet Le Chardon will still advertise, unheeded then as now, its lunchtime 3 course "Special".

[MrBen]

It's all been said before but......when money flows into an area it both benefits and loses in equal measure. Small indie business owners bring a passion and personality to create the DNA of their offering which in turn rubs off on those who work there and buy from them. Character, charm, service....something a bit different - that's what gets my interest.

Eventually, this DNA gets diluted by brylcreamed men from Mayfair who fund expansion of "the forumula" , owner sells out (hello Gourmet BK, Gaucho, Capital Pubs) and offering becomes "meh". Everyone has their price, and the cycle continues.

On LL at the moment you have the two ends to the stick. The low rent ethnic restaurants with what I'd generously describe as less than transparent cash flows at one end, and the omnipresent estate agents. At the other you have the chains (see above).

What you need for some SOUL is the middle bit, creative independents with local rents and policies that allow them to flourish. These conditions are now best found in fringe areas where there is a spending demographic nearby but where startup costs are low. And that's why Camberwell, Peckham and Brixton are now more interesting places to go out.

That said there are still some champion businesses on the lane - it's not all shit.

[Jessie]

Lets ship some of the working classes in from the neighbouring areas, arriving in fire engines being flogged by the cut fire service, inject some soul into this deadened high street. Or just get the 37 to Brixton.

[Gidget]

MrBen,

Which businesses do you think are champion?

[*Bob*]

A pretty good summation there Mr Ben. And having more places of interest in Peckham and Camberwell should hardly be a cause for dejection.. You can walk there from ED.

All too often these things just become a shouting match about bars and restaurants.. Like all anyone ever does is eat out and drink until the bell rings. You have to actually live in between those times.. And ED is still good for living.

There's a fishmonger which has never disappointed. A wine shop without a bottle of Jacob's Creek in sight. SMBS, a small shop with lots of things you're looking for. A butchers which is decent, the meat van which is better. The best off-licence for miles around (remember when Boss Man got The Finger on here when it first opened..?). Cheese. Barbers. DIY. Greenggrocers. A proper locksmith. AJ Farmer, because sometimes you just need 100 pairs of latex gloves and plastic bowl in a hurry. A pretty-looking deli to, er, walk past. A bookshop with a good sense of humour. Health Matters for the snake oil which (grits teeth) my other half loves so dearly. A Saturday market which actually has some things you might want.. finally.

All this stuff is all packed into a very small area. It's downright satisfying to walk five minutes to the shops, get most of the things you're looking for and then bop home.

[maxxi]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> A pretty good summation there Mr Ben. And having

> more places of interest in Peckham and Camberwell

> should hardly be a cause for dejection.. You can

> walk there from ED.

>

> All too often these things just become a shouting

> match about bars and restaurants.. Like all anyone

> ever does is eat out and drink until the bell

> rings. You have to actually live in between those

> times.. And ED is still good for living.

>

> There's a fishmonger which has never disappointed.

> A wine shop without a bottle of Jacob's Creek in

> sight. SMBS, a small shop with lots of things

> you're looking for. A butchers which is decent,

> the meat van which is better. The best off-licence

> for miles around (remember when Boss Man got The

> Finger on here when it first opened..?). Cheese.

> Barbers. DIY. Greenggrocers. A proper locksmith.

> AJ Farmer, because sometimes you just need 100

> pairs of latex gloves and plastic bowl in a hurry.

> A pretty-looking deli to, er, walk past. A

> bookshop with a good sense of humour. Health

> Matters for the snake oil which (grits teeth) my

> other half loves so dearly. A Saturday market

> which actually has some things you might want..

> finally.

>

> All this stuff is all packed into a very small

> area. It's downright satisfying to walk five

> minutes to the shops, get most of the things

> you're looking for and then bop home.

Not to mention Iceland/Co-op for one extreme wing of ED to sneer at and Old Villa/Give+Take ("We are only accepting Designer labels at the moment") for the other; a couple of cracking charity shops and a couple of late night/24hr one-stop convenience stores (Londis etc) for when you're caught out.

'Bopping' home, however, implies a level of sheer glee that is, quite rightly, frowned upon.

[*Bob*]

Sorry about the bopping. I put it down to having seen 'The Warriors' one time too many.

[maxxi]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Sorry about the bopping. I put it down to having

> seen 'The Warriors' one time too many.

Apology accepted - 'Bopping', in future, allowed only when you "come out to playyy-ayyyy!"

[Jeremy]

Are startup costs really lower in Brixton? Seems unlikely. Residential property prices there are higher, and I assume commercial property is more expensive too, not least because of the greater footfall.

[reggie]

Too many cupcakes...that's about it.

Plus more live music.

[Michael Palaeologus]

It does feel like ED has settled into a more stable existance. High rents and a flat economy discourages entrepreneurs so what we end up with are larger organisations who have the ability to invest.

Bellenden on the other hands is galloping ahead. There seems to be new places opening all of the time, all of them indies. Perhaps the result of lower rents and an economic micro-surge. This caused by wealthier folk moving into the redeveloped/new properties in Peckham; in turn driven by an ED over-flow and by the soon to open Overground line.

[Salsaboy]

So the next target is the gentrification of Penge.

[Voyageur]

Salsaboy Wrote:

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> So the next target is the gentrification of Penge.

Already happening Sir. Penge has long had the wonderful Penge Food Centre and more recently has acquired a gastropub,a cupcake shop and a pretty little nursery selling cream teas as the gradual gentrification of Crystal Palace slides down the hill.

[MrBen]

Gidget Wrote:

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> MrBen,

> Which businesses do you think are champion?

You can't really win answering a question like this on here can you? But *Bob* has nailed a good few. If you are talking restaurants or pubs specifically then I have a lot of respect for what Green & Blue have achieved as risk taking entrepreneurs working hard in a nasty economy to bring along an offering that was different (and often full most nights). They've grown their clientele in a tough climate and that's not easy. Hats off to them.

Bars might not be for pub types etc but if you DO want a decent cocktail locally (properly mixed, fresh ingredients, creative mixing) then I rate the newish HO Tippler highly.The guys behind it are expert at their craft, and they are the genuine article. So there's two to start with....

[????]

Good points by many. I think MP sums it up well. My fear is that recession will affect the indies more in LL than in Bellenden as rents here are presumably higher and LL is also now on the big retail chains radar. More chains and less indies, which half the people on here seem to want anyway. Maybe there's a chance that the lower ends of North cross road can indie up a bit but Bellenden now looks far more exciting/interesting than much on the Lane. Careful for what you wish for chain lovers.

[Gidget]

Voyageur Wrote:

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> Salsaboy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > So the next target is the gentrification of

> Penge.

>

>

> Already happening Sir. Penge has long had the

> wonderful Penge Food Centre and more recently has

> acquired a gastropub,a cupcake shop and a pretty

> little nursery selling cream teas as the gradual

> gentrification of Crystal Palace slides down the

> hill.

Cupcake shop? Is that a good thing? A more wide-ranging bakery would be better imo. Gastropubs are everybloodywhere now.

[Voyageur]

Gidget Wrote:

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> Voyageur Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Salsaboy Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > So the next target is the gentrification of

> > Penge.

> >

> >

> > Already happening Sir. Penge has long had the

> > wonderful Penge Food Centre and more recently

> has

> > acquired a gastropub,a cupcake shop and a

> pretty

> > little nursery selling cream teas as the

> gradual

> > gentrification of Crystal Palace slides down

> the

> > hill.

>

> Cupcake shop? Is that a good thing? A more

> wide-ranging bakery would be better imo.

> Gastropubs are everybloodywhere now.

Awwww.... don't be so negative. The Pengians I know seem quite happy with it - makes a change from the Poundland etc. stores. The Penge Food Centre is rather fine too.

[woodrot]

I dont think I have ever been to Penge - its somewhere I see on road signs - is this Penge a SE London Shangri La ?

[*Bob*]

Even the bus announcement sounds incredulous.

[DulwichFox]

One could easily drive through Penge pronounced 'Ponge' without realising they have arrived.

There is nothing remarkable about Penge other than the 176 bus turns back when it gets there.

Fox.