East Dulwich parking survey just hit.

[KalamityKel]

Would be an improved on wot's already there! hehe I'll save the rest of my comment for another thread ;-)

Where would be a suitable place for such a car park? would it really solve the parking issues of ED?

[kford]

There's one behind Iceland.

[*Bob*]

kford Wrote:

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> There's one behind Iceland.

Is it for Iceland customers only?

Do you have to show at least one bag of frozen sausage rolls on the way out - or pay a penalty?

[kford]

I make that 79p for 2 hours' parking. Bargain!

The car wash guys use it too, for clean cars awaiting the return of owners.

[KalamityKel]

And is not particularly big. Especially when the lorries decide to stay all day, staff parking and generally having the mad residents start to fight over over-hanging cars across the entrance. Tis all quite amusing really.

[*Bob*]

Good point, kford.

The thorny CPZ issue is something of a no-brainer. When the number of people who can never find anywhere to park near their homes finally outnumbers the number of people who can usually manage to do so.. bingo.. CPZ.

I suspect the issue of trade in ED taking a significant plunge after CPZedding is largely bollocks.

And as for those who live in CPZeddable territory.. well you can't have it all, can you? An arms length from all those super shops, a quick jaunt from the pub, two minutes from the station and a shiny parking spot whenever you want it? I don't think so.

I hear there's ample parking at Bluewater if you simply have to drive to the shops.

[Loz]

The thorny CPZ issue is something of a no-brainer. When the number of people who can never find anywhere to park near their homes finally outnumbers the number of people who can usually manage to do so.. bingo.. CPZ.

...and then they discover that the CPZ reduces the number of total car spaces and they are now paying 92 quid a year to *still* not be able to park their car. By the time they realise this, it's too late. Has a CPZ ever been removed?

[*Bob*]

There are never going to be more spaces than there are now, but there are always going to be more and more cars.

So you lose 10% or spaces after a CPZ comes in? If there are going to be 20% more cars in a years time anyway then it hardly matters really, I don't think.

[SeanMacGabhann]

careful *Bob* - that's darn near a serious point

[Bobby P]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> There are never going to be more spaces than there

> are now, but there are always going to be more and

> more cars.

>

> So you lose 10% or spaces after a CPZ comes in? If

> there are going to be 20% more cars in a years

> time anyway then it hardly matters really, I don't

> think.

Exactly why a CPZ is a no-win prospect! Put all your money in the Council's pockets, not just your ?92, but also all the visitor permits and suspended bay fines. Anyone who seriously thinks paying out that ?92 will magically alleviate their parking woes is living in wish-fulfilment land, not following the dictates of reason. Basic common sense - and the basic numbers mentioned above - dictate against this outcome. No, a CPZ is purely a way of fleecing the weak-minded, and once it's there, it will never be removed. Just one extra tax.

[kford]

An extra tax it is. Living near to a hight street is like living near to a railway line (or station) - you know there are going to problems when you move in, but also benefits. Can't have it all. I'll suffer the odd bad parking day gladly for the convenience of being able to walk to every shop I need.

[peckhamboy]

Agree with kford. It's the price you pay for living near anything people want to visit/use, like shops, restaurants and transport links. And if you're living that close to those things, you shouldn't need to use your car so often, so the inconvenience should be infrequent. The problem comes from people's expectations that, despite living in a very popular area of an already overcrowded city, they should be able to park their car exactly in front of their house/flat. If it's that important to you, buy a house with a drive.

[Emily]

This sort of scheme is the fastest way to destroy local shops. Good work, make Lordship Lane a desirable place to visit, then make it a near impossible place to visit. Brilliant.

Why not just put up a sign, saying, 'don't bother. go to Sainsbury's'?

[SeanMacGabhann]

How would it be "near-impossible" to visit Emily?

[????]

Of course, we could argue that people from say Camberwell should and could get here by bus etc. But in reality it's probably a marginal decision and on the whole if parking gets difficult with the potential of a fine many will probably get their chesee in Sainsbury's not the Cheeseblock and up all thos 'marginal' decisions from people who live in areas on the outside of SE22 and it makes the difference between a nice profitbale business and closure

[SeanMacGabhann]

People in Camberwell will be too afraid to drive their cars anywhere in case someone nicks their space while they are gone so I expect bus usage to increase significantly

*ahem*

[Asset]

gawd, do people from Camberwell come here?

[*Bob*]

A question for the councillor:

Will a CPZ only be considered if the survey comes back with more in favour than against?

[peckhamboy]

A reply for *Bob*:

A CPZ will only be considered if it will generate massive revenue for the Council, regardless of whether residents want it or otherwise.

[snorky]

Emily Wrote:

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> This sort of scheme is the fastest way to destroy

> local shops. Good work, make Lordship Lane a

> desirable place to visit, then make it a near

> impossible place to visit. Brilliant.

> Why not just put up a sign, saying, 'don't bother.

> go to Sainsbury's'?

hahaha

post of the day

[Mark]

peckhamboy Wrote:

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> ...A CPZ will only be considered if it will generate massive revenue for the Council, regardless of whether residents want it or otherwise.

how do you know this Peckhamboy? Is this true councillors? Has the CPZ been introduced elsewhere and been a massive income generator for the council? In fact, has it been introduced anywhere and been beneficial for the area?

[edited once]

[peckhamboy]

Just a hunch, Mark, based on my natural cynicism...

[*Bob*]

Natural cynicism is all very well (I'm a big fan myself) but on this occasion let's have some facts rather than a hunch.

[Siduhe]

*Bob*, not sure I can offer facts which will totally support peckhamboy's hunch, but here are a couple:

1. One of the reasons that so many London Councils appear to be keen on consulting and then introducting CPZs is that Transport for London actually pay for it, so the costs incurred in setting one up don't even have to come off the Council's bottom line.

2. The TFL guidance on applying for funding for a CPZ (2007/2008) says (para 7.4.25) "It is generally expected that CPZs will generate revenue which may then be used to extend a parking zone or create a new one."

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/LIP-Guidance-Final_2007-08.pdf

So, if I understand this correctly, a Council can consult on introducing a CPZ, then put in a speculative bid for funding from TfL, wait to see if they get it and then either bring the CPZ in or not. This was an issue in Haringey a while back. Not suggesting that this is what is happening here, but it's interesting that TFL are happy to come out and say that it expects the CPZs that it funds to create further funds to either extend or create new parking restrictions...

[kford]

The cash cow idea is confirmed.