Scotland - Independence Referundum

[????]

exactly - also Polls narrowing I think(or you Gov on Newsnight was last night)

[jctg]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> my gut feel is they're going to go...

49.5% Yes - 50.5% No. My prediction.

Will leave a divided nation. But that's what nationalism is all about.

[El Pibe]

quick look, yougov certainly narrowing as of the last couple of weeks!! some others less strident or even other way, but yep, certainly looking that way.

[El Pibe]

Strictly speaking nationalism is all about unifying a nation, its just that these days we're rather more aware at what cost that comes and how narrow or exclusive the concept of nation can be.

Whats interesting here is that neither British nor Scottish nationalism is mutually exclusive, but I rather feel the brand that the SNP is peddling, is!!

[El Pibe]

FT poll of polls interesting, there's almost a rhythm to it

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a5bdce0-c4a4-11e3-b2fb-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3CA3ctbpi

[Otta]

I am hoping that a lot of poeple will vote based on personality, which surely means they'll vote "against" Salmond.

[steveo]

Like their sportsmen (apart from those caber tossers) they lack ambition

They'll get into the box, panic and hit the bar

[maxxi]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I am hoping that a lot of poeple will vote based

> on personality, which surely means they'll vote

> "against" Salmond.

Not if it's seen to be an alternative to voting against Cameron. The whole thing has been turned into a Nationalistic rant of 'Get those Tory bastards at Westminster oot of our country!" and that might just work.

[????]

Agree Maxxi.In the Indie at the weekend there was 'comment' piece by a Scottish QC

That basically was saying 'you are a laughing stock; you're London spivs made us go bust three(?) times blah, blah. blah - just a ridiculous anti-english rant

Especially when the biggest two bank responsible for the banking crisis in the UK where: The Royal Bank of Scotland whose executive and board sat in edinboro under that well known 'cokernee wide boy' Sir Fred; HBOS (guess whwat the BOS stands for? hint Bank of Sc*tland - where the biggest problems were the corporate property loans dished up by the BoS bit based in Edinboro.

Added to which the unsuatsinable idiotic increase in public spending post 2007 was under the stewradship of that well know one eyed englishman. Gordon Brown.

Maybe the monaing gits* should go

*Numbers, So help me bobby, MrB and Snorks can be given honourary English Citizenship

[jctg]

It seems to me to be about 'blood and soil' nationalism which doesn't sit well with me at all. As does any English variant of it. (If you're a Scot who is against independence you're not really Scottish, apparently).

[El Pibe]

What do we call ourselves once they do the frank?

British as opposed to Britons was really coined for that union. A lot of people who considerd themselves British may struggle to think of themselves as English, especially if you're Welsh or Irish, neither of which are really full nations in the Union, the 'kingdom' of Ireland left ages ago and wales, well, that was conquered and absorbed 800years ago so never really feautured as part of the union anymore than say, shropshire.

British was an idea, English smacks of that exclusivity thing, more easily defined and 'defended' by kippers, EDLers and the like.

Ukish "Youkish"? rUKan?

[El Pibe]

That's not to say Wales won't be independent again of course, i can see that happening. They may be overwhelmingly against the idea now, but historical momentum has a habit of being, well, momentous, or should that be moving?

[StraferJack]

I still get to be Irish, right?

[El Pibe]

You can be whatever you want to be SJ.

[JohnL]

I remember the results for Devolution - the No vote led

all night until a huge number of yes votes from the Carmarthen

area won it 50.1 to 49.9.

Now most Welsh people agree, the Assembly isn't to bad.

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That's not to say Wales won't be independent again

> of course, i can see that happening. They may be

> overwhelmingly against the idea now, but

> historical momentum has a habit of being, well,

> momentous, or should that be moving?

[El Pibe]

> I still get to be Irish, right?

Thinking about it, I definitely feel British despite being an immigrant, I could probably describe myself as English as certainly that's where I've lived ahuge chunk of my life, where my opinions were formed, where I was mostly schooled.

But I don't think I'd ever think of myself as Irish no matter how long I live here, and that seems to accord with how people feel about immigrants here.

[StraferJack]

I generally think of you as English rather than Spanish

But nearly 30 years in this country and I don't feel British/English in the slightest. Not sure I'm that Irish either tbh

[Louisa]

I feel Martian most of the time on this forum.

Louisa.

[Otta]

EP you are one of the most "English" people (in a good way) that I know.

[El Pibe]

oh im way less Spanish than british/english, as i said i feel more british than english, and feel a bit sad that that may be lost now.

Though if i had to pick one it's obviosuly be english as you point out Otta; despite my mums side all being scotch type people, well them and the boche and yanks and stuff.

[maxxi]

I've always thought of us all (English, Irish, Scots, Welsh) as British Islanders. No matter what the flags or politics, we are all inhabitants of the British Isles and thinking of ourselves as Islanders goes some way to explaining what we have in common (with each other and, say, Iceland?) i.e. a suspicion of the mainland and them thar ways.

[El Pibe]

Fog in Channel: Continent cut off

[Louisa]

maxxi that all sounds great, but if you speak to a resident of the Shetland Islands who geographically and culturally speaking has more in common with Oslo than it does Edinburgh then this argument starts to fall apart.

Louisa.

[maxxi]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> maxxi that all sounds great, but if you speak to a

> resident of the Shetland Islands who

> geographically and culturally speaking has more in

> common with Oslo than it does Edinburgh then this

> argument starts to fall apart.

>

> Louisa.

Cultural differences arise from the influence the mainland has had, historically, on the Isles and are what make our island group what it is.

A Cornishman may have more in common with his Norman counterpart and an East Anglian may feel kindred spirit with the Dutch - geographically they are both (as is this Shetlander) British Islanders - that's what I meant about politics and flags aside.

[El Pibe]

Louis, surely that's the exception that proves the rule. A few thousand on an outcrop doesn't negate the other 65 million on the big rocks.