Scotland - Independence Referundum

[Salsaboy]

And they're off..........

[El Pibe]

"I think I fall on the side of regreting the fact that the Internet was invented (just) or certainly the Social Media side of it"

I know exactly where you're coming from, but it's just a reflection of humanity innit.

Library have always been filled with fantastic knowledge, including how to make gunpowder, and jilly cooper novels. And shuttle/ferry/famine jokes used to sweep across the nation at the speed of sound.

It's just now we are more influenced by american crazies rather than our home grown ones, and it happens at the speed of light.

THe sheer weight of anti knowledge does seem to have hit some sort of critical mass.

Every other post on facebook seems to be a reduced version of the protocols of the elders of zion these days and i've had enough.

Instant unfriending for each one i reckon.

[El Pibe]

I got Bigoted Woman, then No

 

[Nigello]

54% No, 46% Yes

[Earl Aelfheah]

I don't like nationalism. The flag waving, the tribalism, the inherent parochialism. It nearly always relies on some resentment of 'the other'. UKIP blame everything on Brussels, the SNP on the English/Westminster, the BNP on ethnic minorities and foreigners.

The SNP has good rhetoric - I too would like to see a more progressive Scotland - but also a more progressive UK and a more progressive EU. Such things are much more likely to be achieved together, through co-operation, solidarity and collective action. Fragmentation and factionalism is not an answer.

[El Pibe]

what rahrahrah said.

[vgrant]

the balkanisation of britain.

[david_carnell]

I do find it illogical that those who are anti-EU (such as Tory backbenchers) are also anti-independence. It doesn't show coherant thinking. Surely self-determination is their backbone.

The same arguments hold true.

Being governed by a remote, relatively-unelected group of bureaucrats that are culturally elite and out-of-touch.

That argument, right or wrong, is the same for both those wanting to leave Brussels as it is for the Scots wanting to leave Westminster.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Scotland - Don't vote with your heart. Or head. Just use the pencil provided.

[EDLove]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> I do find it illogical that those who are anti-EU

> (such as Tory backbenchers) are also

> anti-independence. It doesn't show coherant

> thinking. Surely self-determination is their

> backbone.

>

> The same arguments hold true.

>

> Being governed by a remote, relatively-unelected

> group of bureaucrats that are culturally elite and

> out-of-touch.

>

> That argument, right or wrong, is the same for

> both those wanting to leave Brussels as it is for

> the Scots wanting to leave Westminster.

You could also ask why the SNP is so intent on rejoining the EU...

[El Pibe]

because they'll need someone to subsidise them once London's coin dries up?

[TE44]

we have a goverment who refuses to answer questions asked through the foia, when questioned on an unfair

system (atos) that they've set up dealing with the most vulnerable people, although in agreement this company

should no longer be involved, have they protected the people,, no, they continue toallow this company to kill

people refusing to give answers.some posters seem to think this is all about flag waving, I am now assuming they have

never had any family or friend die. Maybe a test should be sat before being allowed to vote, and only those with

enough political knowledge are allowed to vote, and an extra count thrown in for the experts, heaven forbid the

people who are struggling the worst should vote with emotion, or maybe people believe there to busy waving there flags.

[Louisa]

Although I despise the politics of the SNP and other nationalistic parties, I do sympathise with the anti-westminster sentiment. A staunchly Labour voting central belt, once dominated by industrial might has suffered at the hands of governments they have tended to vote against in the past. The patronising tones of westminster politicians who've never lived on the bread line dictating from more than 500 miles away from within a nation state that claims to be democratic when in 2014 it's head of state is an unelected member of the aristocratic elite, who occasionally spends time in remote castles in your part of this 'Kingdom'. If I were a progressive Scottish socialist I would see the opportunities that would arise from ditching London and going down a new route where you could eventually leave behind the old guard of fading British imperialism and create a fairer society that gets what they vote for and has control of it's own affairs. It's all rather painful hearing the London elite singing the praises of the union when it's tended only ever to benefit that city anyway. Swathes of the union are deprived and crying out for redistribution of business, power and industry. It's about time the whole country re-evaluates it's political and constitutional makeup and I'm hoping this referendum allows time for reflection, after we've hopefully scraped hope with a narrow NO victory.

Louisa.

[nashoi]

At times like this I turn to Viz to see what to do

[El Pibe]

:)

[Seabag]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> I got Bigoted Woman, then No

>

>

Ditto

V funny tho

[TE44]

a lily laid for each person known to die within 6 wks of atos fit to work decision. of course

we don't know the real figures because our goverment refuse to tell us.

Louise I believe many people like yourself, understand and feel the same, but as usual its the people of scotlaand

who are being scrutinised whilst all parties hide behind this illusion of togetherness.

hope this pic works my son did ir for me.

[TE44]

oops didnt work but link there,

[JohnL]

But theres a picture of Dave next to a little girl and a Shetland Pony

He also went down the pub with some of the locals apparently,

Has he ever drunk with you ?

So there must be a secret oil field :)

numbers Wrote:

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> The Clair oil field was discovered in the 70s, so

> nothing new. Now up for sale. Interest in the west

> of Shetlands has been going on for donkeys years.

> Of course, the yes campaign have pooh-poohed

> comments by Sir Ian Wood, so hey, they must be

> right. Rather listen to them than someone with

> 40+yrs experience in the industry. I could go on

> but won't.

[BrandNewGuy]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Although I despise the politics of the SNP and

> other nationalistic parties, I do sympathise with

> the anti-westminster sentiment.

> If I were a progressive Scottish socialist I would

> see the opportunities that would arise from

> ditching London and going down a new route

But that's such a short-term and contingent reason for breaking a three-hundred year union. What if (and it's a big 'if', admittedly) Westminster was currently under a mildly redistributive and non-belligerent Labour government ? would you want independence then? Basing the future of the union on tactical advantage seems to me to be wrong and potentially dangerous.

> you could eventually leave behind the old guard of

> fading British imperialism

... which benefited much of Scotland as it did much of England. Glasgow is an imperial port city whose wealth was based around the benefits that empire brought, including, in the early days, slavery. In that, it's no different from Liverpool, Bristol or, to an extent, London. Scotland's engineers, scientists, bureaucrats, shipbuilders and sailors were all vital cogs in the imperial project.

> It's all rather

> painful hearing the London elite singing the

> praises of the union when it's tended only ever to

> benefit that city anyway.

See above.

[El Pibe]

yep, I'd say Scotland did disproportionately well out of empire as it embraced it with some gusto, contributing more engineers, goevernors, businessmen aventurers and soldiers than its size would suggest.

Mind you so did Ireland, but it tended to do less well out of it as a whole and had a very different relationship, but that's another story.

[jctg]

I found it staggering and depressing that so many people have fallen for the Yes campaign's nationalism and its divisive politics of identity and grievance.

[????]

...all underpinned by 'of course we don't hate the english' through clenched teeth and with crossed fingers behind their backs :)

"some of my best friends are english but...."

[*Bob*]

Alex said to Dimbleby 'wi gonnae be best pals' - that's good enough for me.

[TE44]

Theres a lot of grievance all over, and of course people identify with one another regardless of where they live, i can't see it making much differences to people who can see the individual perspectives rather than grouping people

in political parties. This hides the problems being shared by all the country.