Fined ?75 for dropping a cigar butt - fair?

[KalamityKel]

I think it would have been fairer if they gave the option to pick it up and dispose of it in the proper manner whilst giving you a strong warning.

Yes I appreciate they were quite clearly making an example out of the whole thing but as already mentioned on this thread the "finers" didn't target everyone else along LL at the same time.

[gerry]

Mark

I get my information from the kids that get mugged. Each day, I hear from another parent that their son or daughter has been mugged......its been going on for years, and unfortunately parents from these schools have resorted to driving their kids everywhere. What a shame.

[Mscrawthew]

Roughly 4 months ago, there were at least 6 of these wardens and at least the same number of police officers outside Bermondsey tube station giving out fines to those who had to have their last cigarette before boarding a tube. It was 8am and they made a killing that day, pity the police weren`t out in the street doing something more important :'(

[gerry]

What a scandel....making money is what their goal is.....easy targets

[seanmlow]

Mark -

I agree with Gerry. Some of us can think outside the box. My friend has been picked on THREE TIMES this week trying to walk from the bus stop to her house (about a 10 min walk). She has spoken to the police who seem totally disinterested.

It just made me think that effort is being put into the wrong thing. For example, has the council thought about doing something to calm down the traffic on LL, or will they wait until someone is run down? Have they confronted the kids that loiter outside the newsagent by the playground on ED road - where I was treatened with a knife after refusing to give a kid 50p!!

[Bellenden Belle]

What was so irritating is a bunch of

> blokes were accross the road chain smoking and

> slinging their butts - I guess the little weazle

> was too scared of them!

The old English student came out in me when I read that. "A bunch of blokes"... "chain smoking" ... not just placing their butt-ends on the ground but "slinging" them! Bloody hell - they were horrible louts littering our streets, weren't they? Not like you - you were smoking a cigar, waiting for your sister - terribly respectable, very reasonable.

Fact is you broke the rules and you paid the price literally. I don't like littering. Full stop. It's the behaviour we are talking about here. Not you, not the blokes across the street. And it was the behaviour that warranted the fine.

You know, I used to smoke, and I used to drop cigarette butts everywhere. And then once in Richmond this incredibly posh woman said in a really really loud voice "You dirty girl" as my cigarette butt hit the floor. I was embarrassed, angry and slightly ashamed. But I learnt my lesson.

ps. I wouldn't actually advise people to use the phrase "you dirty girl" to strangers in public - there are perhaps more appropriate ways to address the problem. Perhaps like a ?75 fine.

[Mark]

I don't have a box myself so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Anyway as I mentioned on your other thread about your friend being picked on, there is the Safer Neighbour Hood team, they deal with things like that, so there is effort being put into the right thing. I'll copy and paste it here again:

Safer Neighbourhood police teams - taken from http://www.southwark.gov.uk/YourCommunity/Dulwich/lookingafterDulwich.html

"There are three Safer Neighbourhoods police teams in Dulwich in addition to other policing teams. Each team is made up of six police and Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs). Their aim is to find out what affects your daily life and feelings of security and help find lasting solutions to these problems.

Teams are permanent ... See this site http://www.met.police.uk/saferneighbourhoods/ for more details"

Put this number in your phone: East Dulwich Ward Safer Neighbourhood Team Tel: 020 8721 2447, they're good for reporting non-police type incidents to.

I hope that helps

[gerry]

Thanks Mark, I will pass that on.

[Nero]

BellendenBelle,

I share your horror of littering. When appropriate, your shaming idea is worth a go. It's so mucb better than silent seething or passive aggressive behaviour. I also think that when I pick up cans and bottles from teh street, a subliminal message is received by people, who might think twice about littering in the future.

But I also feel sympathy with seanmlow's view that the wardens are less likely to pick on a group of men in Camberwell, or go looking for 'victims' outside a pub.

Nero

[seanmlow]

Once again the point has been missed.

What I don't like is the fact I was singled out, on a street FULL OF SMOKERS - e.g. the guys opposite. If you are going to fine me, do it, but don't just walk past other offenders!

It is clear he was nervous as he was stuttering. If they want to put these baffoons on the street then they can't pick and choose who to fine. Surely a rule is a rule if we want to stop the littering?

No, instead they pick on a guy on his own on his mobile. Easy target, unlikely to react badly.

I think they may be in for a shock soon - one of these days they will get nutted!

[Mark]

Seanmlow

what is it with the name calling? The other guys were smoking on private property, they didn't get done. You were doing wrong, you got busted by someone with a stutter, get over it.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Given that people get mugged and given that some muggers do get caught, do you think the ones that get caught say "it's not fair! Most of the other muggers get away with it - I hardly EVER mug anyone and the one time I do I get nabbed!!"

[Burbage]

seanmlow Wrote:

>

> I think they may be in for a shock soon - one of

> these days they will get nutted!

They're working around that. Face recognition software and the nice biometric identity cards will make patrols unnecessary, and they'll get a robot to hand out fines.

That, I hope, will free our hard-working PCSOs from their social control responsibilities and enable them to offer real community support - telling people the time, hauling old folk across roads and generally keeping an eye out for criminal nonsense - what Plod used to do before they learnt to love paperwork and shoot Brazilians.

In the meantime, the War Against Behaviour is being fought by whoever's cheapest. It's now a whole decade since Blair announced his cashpoint plan for tramps, and yet there are still people drinking and smoking and whistling in the street. In other circumstances we'd probably have the military involved by now, but in their absence the PCSOs are the next best thing, especially given the difficulties in recruiting Specials

[mockney piers]

Will the robots offer the 'perps' 20 seconds to comply?

*edited for grocers apostrophe - eek*

[SteveT]

Cigar butted

[lozzyloz]

Sean, life can be so unfair. Lordship Lane is a tough place, especially that patch outside Somerfields where all kinds of hazards are waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting. I've known life long ED residents who wince at the thought of standing there.

But look at the positive side.

At least you're not having to write a whinging thread about being run over by a buggy pushed by a stuttering nanny.

[missd]

maybe unfair that you got fined so much immediately, without even a warning

however.....i am sure you might think twice before you throw a butt on the floor again.

and if it makes people think twice then that's a good thing (in my opinion of course).

[KalamityKel]

Yes litter is a bad thing but spare a thought for the street cleaners... without litter they have no jobs! :))

*awaits the attack*

Back on thread... yes you were wrong, yes you were caught, yes it was unfair for the fine issued (tu)

[PeckhamRose]

I have just returned from a trip down Rye Lane shopping and opticians and stuff.

Whilst there I saw two Community Wardens (to give them their correct titles) and approached them about the subject de jour.

They said - if you pay within ten days it's ?50.

They are not stupid.

They told me they do not carry money around and so the fine was issued in the form of a ticket (like parking ticket) and if the person gives a false name or address they follow it up and obviously they are good at recognising faces.

They approach people who are not looking like they will attempt to kill them. If there is trouble they will call the police. If the police don't come because it's not a priority there's nothing they can do.

If you are asked for your name and address by someone in authority EVEN a community warden it is an offence to lie. Clearly you did not and you were fined.

For the information on Police Ward Panels of which I am a member and anyone can be in their locale if they can be arsed, you should come along and state your case.

Phone the safer neighbourhood team numbers given above and ask them for details of the one in your area.

Admin: I started a topic a while ago which I hoped would be a useful topic listing all the important such phone numbers of safer neighbourhood teams, police support community officers, ward panels and community councils and so on and hoped everyone would add to it and put relevant numbers in their phones. Could that topic be "stuck" to the top of the forum please? It just might be useful, that's all.

Good luck in your appeal, seanmlow.

[Ted Max]

They approach people who are not looking like they will attempt to kill them.

Is that an admission that they only approach non-scary types?

[PeckhamRose]

As I said, they're not stupid!

Would you?

[Ted Max]

I was just asking for clarification, not making any comment one way or the other.

[KalamityKel]

Surely that's discrimination! ::o

[PeckhamRose]

I always discriminate against scary types!

[*Bob*]

Seanmlow,

Try to look menacing next time - and you'll probably get away with it.