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Royal Mail Late Deliveries and the price we have to pay


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An earlier poster wondered what our MP could actually do about the Royal Mail postal delivery service. And obviously it's falling apart across the country, from reports. But one thing MPs could do, if they were so minded, was to enact legislation which would stop a presumption of delivery being made when an item is posted. That is how 'the authorities' can penalise individuals for e.g. non payment of fines, when the notification has been posted but not received. Under law, at the moment, proof of posting is sufficient (as indeed it used to be, in truth, when we had a proper service) to 'prove' delivery. No longer, evidently.

So maybe urge Helen Hayes (if it is she who is your MP) to lobby her party to propose such legislation - the removal of this 'presumption of delivery' is not only now fair and equitable, but would help put further pressure on the Royal Mail as I imagine this legal fiction is still a selling point for them.

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18 hours ago, Angelina said:

please contact your local councillor.

we have and they are doing a news article about it

Just got in touch with the MP, but other than that I can barely see a way out of this? News articles have been written in the past and got us nowhere. Don't want to be too negative but trying to be realistic on what can be achieved at this point. Someone more experienced than me might beg to differ- please do, as I'd so love to be proven wrong on this and see some light at the end of the tunnel!

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On 17/10/2023 at 18:41, sweetgirl said:

Just for information,  I spoke to a friend today re deliveries………

7/20 posties were delivering today!!!

On Monday 16/10/23 I got an email update from serviceinfo.royalmail.com saying

Quote

We're pleased to confirm that the resourcing issues reported at the East Dulwich Delivery Office have improved, and services are recovering.

Today we're not on their problematic deliveries list https://www.royalmail.com/service-update.  Who knows what tomorrow will bring. 

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Spoke to a friend 

they are seriously short staffed.

new contracts are shite no one stays on,

existing workers get asked to do overtime, everyone refuses as there’s no incentive!

doesn’t look like things will improve until staff working conditions improve!

we are doomed!

certain staff are almost being begged to do overtime even when they say they are tired…….  Staff are obviously of no importance to RM!

they keep putting the prices up, no different to our utility suppliers

its all about the people at the top while the little people are 💩 upon!

 

Edited by sweetgirl
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2 hours ago, sweetgirl said:

Spoke to a friend 

they are seriously short staffed.

new contracts are shite no one stays on,

existing workers get asked to do overtime, everyone refuses as there’s no incentive!

doesn’t look like things will improve until staff working conditions improve!

we are doomed!

certain staff are almost being begged to do overtime even when they say they are tired…….  Staff are obviously of no importance to RM!

they keep putting the prices up, no different to our utility suppliers

its all about the people at the top while the little people are 💩 upon!

 

Yes, well, they were  privatised, weren't they.

So shareholders get the money which should be used to pay staff more and improve services to the public.

Same as terrible privatised train services, privatised water companies dumping  💩 in our seas and rivers, etc etc etc.

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Now all the stamps have barcodes could a Labour government insist that we can claim the cost of the stamps if post isn't delivered within say two days (1st class) and three days (2nd class)? And if the Peckham sorting office can't deliver to us then let us go to the sorting office and find our post? In Friern Road we have been getting one delivery a week (by a non-local postie) recently, and that doesn't bring the post that should be delivered then. Of six 1st class posted letters to me only one arrived the day after posting, and two more than a week later. How can Royal Mail justify the huge cost of stamps when their service is so execrable. 

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18 hours ago, sqw103 said:

Of six 1st class posted letters to me only one arrived the day after posting, and two more than a week later.

If the last two were posted via Royal Mail and have evidence of the posting date, why not look into claiming compensation from them?

CAB: If your post has been damaged, lost or delayed by Royal Mail - Citizens Advice

Royal Mail Retail Compensation

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/webforms/claim

Edited by ianr
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6 hours ago, ianr said:

If the last two were posted via Royal Mail and have evidence of the posting date, why not look into claiming compensation from them?

CAB: If your post has been damaged, lost or delayed by Royal Mail - Citizens Advice

Royal Mail Retail Compensation

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/webforms/claim

That only works if sqw103 has proof of the posting which, as they're the recipient, seems unlikely. And also proof that it arrived "three or more working days after the due date" (unless they happen to be busy, when it's four working days). Which is not particularly easy.

The easiest way to get proof of any of this is if the sender gets a "proof of posting" slip from a Post Office when they post it. That will give a date and a time, to which you have to add a day. That's because Royal Mail cunningly deems the "last collection" time on any day to be 7am, safely before Post Offices are open. So the first day becomes the next day and, for first class post, the third day becomes the "due date" as that counts as the next day. Unless, as I said, it's a busy time of year.

Then we need to add to the third day the three working days after the due date.

Perhaps an example would help: Say someone posts something to you first thing on a Monday. That means it's posted on a Tuesday, and the due date is a Wednesday. Three working days after that is Sunday, which doesn't count, meaning that if it hasn't arrived by the following Monday, you can see if you feel lucky and make a complaint.

So now we've got a "next day" service, for which compensation can be had if it arrives a week later, unless they can find an excuse (bank holidays, weather, busy times of year). But only if you can persuade the sender to retrospectively get a proof of posting, send that proof to you and indisputably prove that the postie didn't shovel it through your flap beforehand.

If you can get all that together, and navigate their online claims procedure (a breed of "go away machine" that customers of utility firms and GP surgeries will be familiar with) within three months then you might, after a suitable length of time, receive a "book of first class stamps" for your trouble, safe in the knowledge that it'll have cost them a lot less than the fiver it might have cost you.

The only consolation is that, useless and futile than it might all seem, it's been smiled on by the Regulator, an actual Government Agency that is, at the very least, the best we can possibly hope for.

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I have just come across a letter from Royal Mail.

It is dated 24 August 2023.

It says "our tracking information confirms delivery of your item on 16/11/23 and I hope your item has now been received."

🤣🤣🤣

Is Royal Mail now going in for  some weird form of time travel?

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Royal Mail have surpassed themselves. A local letter arrived today but unfortunately 3 months too late. It was a PCN from Southwark telling us that if we paid within 14 days it would be reduced to £65. The offence took place on July 14th! Obviously in the meantime we got stung for £195 for non payment but didn’t appeal as we had no proof. How do you prove that a letter did not arrive? We may try now but not very hopeful. Royal Mail is a complete shambles.

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9 hours ago, aggie said:

Obviously in the meantime we got stung for £195 for non payment but didn’t appeal as we had no proof. How do you prove that a letter did not arrive?

An answer to  that question -- you can provide the evidence though your own statement in a statutory declaration.  They're actually specified as the required method in  para  7 of Schedule 1 of the  London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted.  But that's prescribed for submission at the stage where the £195 charge certificate has been unpaid and  the enforcing authority has obtained a county court order allowing them to recover the money as a civil debt.  That submission can, afaics, if done in time (though you can seek leave to submit late) lead to a cancellation of all actions to date, and allow the authority to issue a fresh PCN. 

(There's also a readable summary of stages of appeals and enforcement and remedies  at https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process that may be helpful.  I don't know why they refer to witness statements rather than SDs or if they mean to distinguish them.  There's an example of an SD form  designed for use  in this context at  http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=76504)

If you've already paid the £195 I assume, though claim no expert knowledge,  that that would leave just the enforcing authority,  Southwark or TfL,  to petition strongly for remedy.  Can they be phoned for advice on useful courses of action?  Would an SD help them to act favourably.

Do you still have the envelope?  It might be worth asking RM if it can provide any information on its location at any time.  If it has barcoded stamps I'd press them for all available data on its logging en route.  Otherwise, see if they can confirm in writing the length of time it might have been sitting in their office?

 

 

 

 

Edited by ianr
pernicketiness
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Thanks for all that advice. Have phoned Southwark but they said it should have been queried before we paid the £195. No mechanism for a refund, not surprised. Suggested we take it up with Royal Mail. No barcode/date on the envelope so not in a strong position. Maybe if we work hard and persevere we might be lucky enough to get a free book of stamps! Thanks again.

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It was my partners birthday last week …& yesterday he got some post including a birthday card sent on his birthday from last year ..exactly a year late ..was a big birthday last year & had that age on it ..& the post mark said it was sent October 2022 🤷‍♂️

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On 27/10/2023 at 06:55, spark67 said:

It was my partners birthday last week …& yesterday he got some post including a birthday card sent on his birthday from last year ..exactly a year late ..was a big birthday last year & had that age on it ..& the post mark said it was sent October 2022 🤷‍♂️

😮

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