Peckham Rye - how dodgy is it?

[snorky]

I know Peckham and havent just done a walk tho and chatted to various random single letter surnamed people

Its not a village, despite what people in the Bellend road area promote Im sorry to say, but nor is is a seething shithole of drive bys and crack fiendery

Straight and decent people live there - not just the owners of the fat houses with their Stark taps - but common or garden people, who live in rented or social housing and struggle every fuckin day to get their kids to school and make ends meet - they are the majority oddly enough - quoting the shitrag cod left Guardian and its holier than bastard tho agenda and its excrable long winded whiny unworthy shit engorged fuckpig columnists is cul de sac - its is worth as much as a Daily Mail article

If you dont have anything to say that is constructive and an honest response to the OP, then please do fuck off

( Snorky now finds his ID for the forum has been cancelled I would think )

[macroban]

taper, this puzzled me:

"Area west of Peckham Rye station is lovely [...]. Some of the housing stock is far better than the rather limited late Victorian stuff [...] you get in East Dulwich."

If "late Victorian" runs from c1870 to c1900 then Bellenden Village housing stock is pretty much the same as swathes of East Dulwich. Post-1900 East Dulwich has far more variation.

MacRoban

[SeanMacGabhann]

Snorks - as you are prone to flounce from the forum I doubt Admin would cancel your membership

Vibrant has been adopted by the sources you mention but is no less meaningful for that. you know what it means so ease up on the withering contempt, there's a love

As for

Wasn't that www.beerintheevning.com's point to you ;-)

[snorky]

aha

Nothing personal with the withering contempt regarding the Vibrant issue, its just the words use that does ones nut in...Indeed, Ive removed it for clarity of slagging

If Peckham had to scrape together a lo fi tagline it would be

"Peckham - not as bad as you may think, and at least its not Lewisham "

[SeanMacGabhann]

I would use the phrase "lol" but.. well you get the picture. I laughed out loud but the phrase..

I think the whole "vibrant" issue has reached epic proportions and now deserves it's own thread.

Or at least a spot on the "phrase that make you spit" thread

And as for the slogan for Peckham - my home town would be proud of such an accolade

[HonaloochieB]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I would use the phrase "lol" but.. well you get

> the picture. I laughed out loud but the phrase..

>

> I think the whole "vibrant" issue has reached epic

> proportions and now deserves it's own thread.

> Or at least a spot on the "phrase that make you

> spit" thread

Quite so, I think...SM but perhaps I've drank as much as you have and will make no more of a point.

#Ah sure Sean I was born and reared there...#

>

> And as for the slogan for Peckham - my home town

> would be proud of such an accolade

[jimmy two times]

I've heard Baghdad's pretty 'vibrant' too.

[tommy]

To the initial poster, the only way you are going to find out is through giving it a go (if you are renting it will not be that big a deal to move)

Obviously opinions can be formed by comparing what a place used to be like through rose tinted glasses, or over a single incident (however large or small)

Like TripAdvisor (!) the negatives usually are more vocal (and more likely to voice their opinion)

[taper]

Macroban - Was thinking of the houses on holly grove, the lyndhursts, denman, talfourd; mid-Victorian and earlier. Nothing in east Dulwich to compare. There's an awful lot of coded racism or fear of the other on here. Why are some of you people living in inner city London! Peckham is a lot more dangerous than ED. But it can offer things that the rather dull and comfortable ED cannot. Ditto Camberwell, which is the true jewell of SE London. The only time I've ever been threatened round here was in ED Sainsbury's car park by some middle class white liberal type.

[clive3300]

Just took a walk along Rye Lane an hour ago and made an interesting observation, which I have before - there are very few to no young males hanging around apparently "looking for trouble". I passed hundreds of people up and down the street and there were almost no young males, and I saw not one group standing around. I have noticed this before. It was overwelmingly middle aged to old people or young mothers with kids under 10. Maybe its not "cool" enough to hang out in (at least up to PR rail station) at any rate. Anyone else notice this?

Also I believe, listening to accents, the population is more African rather than Caribbean (e.g. I saw no one dressed in Rastafarian), which somehow seems to make people generally quieter spoken and more relaxed than Brixton which seem to have the harsher Jamaican accents and seems comparitively full of large, yelling people and with plenty of huge young men in black bomber jackets, which some people might find menacing.

[snoozequeen1]

taper Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>> Peckham is a lot more dangerous than ED. But it

> can offer things that the rather dull and

> comfortable ED cannot.

Er, not meaning you personally taper, but we should all be totally ashamed that this division has happened. And it has happened in the last 20 years, a time when SE15 and SE22 were both inclusive areas, until you can now draw a line on a map between worlds.

It is not all right to have a white middle class enclave with mock Victorian sweetie shops, trinketry and frippery food, 400 yards from an immigrant/under class reservation where you can go for, as you describe them, less "dull" and "comfortable" things. As long as your own hildren don't have to grow up somehow through the less "dull" and "comfortable" things?

Here is a terribly sophisticated idea. Why don't all the lovely people in SE22/SE21 grow up and stop buying drugs? Why don't we stop taking a quick profit and cheap goods out of destroying other people's economies, and then maybe they wouldn't have to come here in the first place.

Then there wouldn't be any violence in Peckham, would there, without the drugs market? And the people who don't have a three-generation well-worn, inevitable-from-my-school-and-family passport into the law or PR or "voluntary sector management" or accountancy or the BBC, those people wouldn't be going into drug wholesale, retail and marketing as their ordained career path.

Re earlier remarks, the reason that Marks and Spencer, Dunn & Co etc all shut down and pulled out of Peckham circa 1989-90 was that they weren't making enough money to stay open. There was a recession, I recall, in 1989? The death of Rye Lane was a traditional high street wasn't caused by crime on the North Peckham Estate, both these things were caused by government policies which **eed on ordinary people the world over, free marketeering and globalisation.

Do we really think that the people living in Peckham and eating "smelly" food wanted to leave their own homes, culture, language, families, country, everything that they knew and made them who they were, to come and clean your house (cash in hand, obviously) and be sneered at for doing it, on the other side of the world?

It's our government policies that have forced and are forcing huge numbers of people off the land/out of work across eg Latin America, and that is getting a whole lot worse as entire countries are being turned over to producing biofuel and animal feed crops for export to the rich, rather than feeding their own people.

Did you see the ad in the Evening Standard, guaranteeing 10-20% returns on "Green Gold", ie, crops from Argentina/Brazil/Paraguay - the "united republics of soya". What do you think was happening on that land before UK speculators bought it? How do you think, exactly, that your 10-20% guaranteed return gets screwed out of the country and its people?

And once people have been shoved off/forced out of what was their family's home for generations, they may as well come to London as the totally lawless squalid city in their own country.

If you drive down Peckham Rye and Rye Lane at 5am the people you see waiting at the bus stops are Chinese, African and Latin American people starting their first job of the day. The reason the "smelly" shops are open so late on Rye Lane is that the same people need to shop and eat after working for 14 hours. They do have to eat you know.

[clive3300]

taper Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Macroban - Was thinking of the houses on holly

> grove, the lyndhursts, denman, talfourd;

> mid-Victorian and earlier. Nothing in east

> Dulwich to compare.

I agree. These houses are visible to the north as you come into PR rail station from the west (e.g. from Blackfriars). They are beautiful large early victorians. They are larger and prettier than pretty much anything in ED (which is overwelmingly small 2 story houses). Lyndhurst has some lovely houses. Pity it degenerates into a council /industrial wasteland a few hundred metres up the road.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Totally agree with snoozequeen.

I've bought chicken, goat and other meat for me and my kids and tripe and bones for my dog from the Rye lane butchers for the past year and a half, It's good value and I've never had any problems with it.

I used to buy the same thing from East Street butchers when I lived in Elephant, and similarly have had no problems with it.

Just because it's something you are not familiar with or not sold by white people, does not mean it is substandard.

You need to climb down from your ivory towers and check it out.

If you need a tour guide, me or my kids can be of assistance.

[clive3300]

snoozequeen1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...........we

> should all be totally ashamed that this division

> has happened. And it has happened in the last 20

> years, a time when SE15 and SE22 were both

> inclusive areas, until you can now draw a line on

> a map between worlds.

>

> It is not all right to have a white middle class

> enclave with mock Victorian sweetie shops,

> trinketry and frippery food, 400 yards from an

> immigrant/under class reservation where you can go

> for, as you describe them, less "dull" and

> "comfortable" things. As long as your own hildren

> don't have to grow up somehow through the less

> "dull" and "comfortable" things?

>

>

...

>

....

>

> Do we really think that the people living in

> Peckham and eating "smelly" food wanted to leave

> their own homes, culture, language, families,

> country, everything that they knew and made them

> who they were, to come and clean your house (cash

> in hand, obviously) and be sneered at for doing

> it, on the other side of the world?

>

> It's our government policies that have forced and

> are forcing huge numbers of people off the

> land/out of work across eg Latin America, and that

> is getting a whole lot worse as entire countries

> are being turned over to producing biofuel and

> animal feed crops for export to the rich, rather

> than feeding their own people.

>

> Did you see the ad in the Evening Standard,

> guaranteeing 10-20% returns on "Green Gold", ie,

> crops from Argentina/Brazil/Paraguay - the "united

> republics of soya". What do you think was

> happening on that land before UK speculators

> bought it? How do you think, exactly, that your

> 10-20% guaranteed return gets screwed out of the

> country and its people?

>

> And once people have been shoved off/forced out of

> what was their family's home for generations, they

> may as well come to London as the totally lawless

> squalid city in their own country.

> the same people need to shop and eat after

> working for 14 hours. They do have to eat you

> know.

What a depressingly negative view you have of Britain and the entire world!

The immigrants I know (and I know lots) are generally positive, upbeat, practical people prepared to take a chance for a new life and IMO are generally happy with the great improvement in life and opportunity they have got in the UK. This includes the Caribbean and Asian immigrants from the 50s right up to african and eastern European immigrants from today.

It seems only following generations (if they feel they cannot assimilate) and native british who have this sort of angsty, beating one's breast-viewpoint and unable to see the possibilities available here compared to other countries.

[Siduhe]

Someone further up this thread nailed in (in my view) when they said that chantelle should make up her own mind how she feels about it. Nothing against the different views expressed here, but you need to take that information and spend a bit of time there yourself. Different people will feel differently about stuff.

I was similarly nervous about Peckham Rye when I moved here because I travel through there every day, including quite late at night. Now I feel very comfortable there, cautious as I would be anywhere in London, but I love the energy and the variety you see - and if you want okra, chillies, plaintain, yams etc there's nowhere better in London. You may even (shock horror!) get into a conversation with someone at the bus stop which certainly has never happened to me in ED. That said, it's an area with issues and you need to trust your instincts. The best thing I've ever been taught in terms of personal safety is that if something feels wrong to you, just get the heck out of there. We spend hundreds of thousands of years developing these instinctive skills and then don't trust them when the time comes.

[talfourdite]

I know this debate has featured a few times, with people clearly divided between peckham-philes and phobes, and I always find it strange that there are so many dissenters. Mrs Talfourdite and I were very sceptical about moving here because of the Peckham association, but are absolutely in love it having lived here two years. Obviously it is London, so it comes with a health warning, but every night I walk down holly grove, through warwick gardens and down my road I feel overwhelmed with the beauty of the houses and the charm of the area. there is a good feel to the entire area and we have been made to feel enourmously welcome by our neighbours. I like East Dulwich a lot, but wouldn't give up living here for there in a million years.

good luck with whatever you do.

Spangles, I'm sure you are just playing the pantomime baddy for this website, but it's good to see you are still being as militantly opinionated and generally as unpleasant as ever.

p.s. I know you'll be glad to know our IVF twins turned up healthy and happy

[macroban]

Talfourd Road is in Camberwell. The Camberwell boundary ran along the centre of Victoria Road (now Bellenden Road North of Chadwick Road).

[talfourdite]

actually it is in my back garden according to the ordinance surveys - we are still SE15

[louisiana]

Same here, but I confess I've never been looking and probably have my head - and eyes - in the clouds.

[taper]

Yep, Talfourd is Peckham. And Talfourdite's bang-on about this bit of Peckham.

[macroban]

See Ordnance Survey, London Sheet, CIII.

[johnhinton]

I lived in Talfourd Road for over 10 years before moving to Dulwich. Always felt safe going home from Peckham Rye station or on the bus, however much I had to drink. I was burgled four times and I even managed to catch a guy in our house once (I grabbed him without thinking about what to do next, but at least he dropped the "swag") but none of this put me off. The road had nice neighbours and the whole area was lots of fun.

Nowadays, our immediate neighbours in the village are very sweet, but elderly, and if it wasn't for the school drop-offs and pick-ups, I'm not sure there would be anyone to talk to. In the first month we moved into the village, we saw several blue and yellow police signs warning about street robberies - which Ihadn't seen in over 10 years in Peckham.

[taper]

I promise you Talfourd's in SE15. Come and see the road sign, which proudly bears the legend "SE15". And check your A-Z. Peckham's millionaire's row it is.

[macroban]

It's Camberwell. No doubt about it.

Some people confuse postal districts with other boundaries.

[MelbourneGr]

It doesn't matter what anyone says about the roads from Peckham and Camberwell that lead to Dulwich.

Everyone says the same thing when you ask them where they live - and thats Dulwich...