What is the Difference between Australians/Kiwis actually?

[Keef]

If a white man got an aboriginal lady pregnant, then the child would be taken from it's mother.

Try the film "Rabbit proof fence", will make you angry and depress you all in one sitting.

[Strawbs]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> 1/2 = one parent?

> 1/4 = one grandparent?

> 1/8 = one great grandparent?

> .

> .

> .

> 1/32 = one great great great grandparent was

> aboriginal? I'm amazed there were any white folks

> in Oz at that point!

>

> Blimey, that's some genealogy.

>

> Oh, and excuse my ignorance but what's the "stolen

> generation"?

My dad recently sent me my family tree hold on and I will let you know who and when x

[Strawbs]

Keef Wrote:

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> If a white man got an aboriginal lady pregnant,

> then the child would be taken from it's mother.

>

> Try the film "Rabbit proof fence", will make you

> angry and depress you all in one sitting.

Unfortunately it wasnt just limited to this it was also full aboriginal children that were taken away too. BAsically (and very basically) aboriginal children were taken from their parents and placed in to either homes i.e. like an orphanage or into the care of white families as it was believed that aboriginals did not know how to care for their children properly.

[Strawbs]

@DC - ok so Charles Balding from Bermondsey went to Australia in 1873 and MARRIED RachelColebull (aboriginal person) in 1875 and they had 8 children. She was born in 1857 and was taken from her parents and fostered out to white people.

[Keef]

A lot of it was down to christian missionary organisations wasn't it?

[Strawbs]

Correct Christian white folk who thought they were doing the aboriginal children a favour because they of course knew best *rolls eyes*

[david_carnell]

Strawbs Wrote:

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> @DC - ok so Charles Balding from Bermondsey went

> to Australia in 1873 and MARRIED RachelColebull

> (aboriginal person) in 1875 and they had 8

> children. She was born in 1857 and was taken from

> her parents and fostered out to white people.

So you're as much a Sarf Landan girl as you are an aboriginy. Congrats. ;-)

[*Bob*]

I've been Oz a few times now and I have to say (on every occasion) I was amazed at the generally unsympathetic view your average Australian still has of 'the abbos' as I so often heard them referred to as.

I was also amazed how infrequently I saw them - except on the street in the less salubrious parts of town.

Out of sight, out of mind.

[Keef]

Have to agree with *bob* just based on my experience. I have a lot of Aussie friends, and I am often a bit taken aback at things I hear them say. It's strange, as they don't seem to have any problem with anyone else, but when it comes to "the abbos", they are either something to be laughed at, or just some people that shouldn't be in their way.

Not saying all aussies are like that Strawbs (or anyone else reading), but it has been my experience with a lot of them from various parts.

[Strawbs]

@ *Bob* and Keef - I too cannot disagree with what you have said..

It is an unfortunate thing in Australia that generally the 'abbos' are not regarded at all (except a key 2 or 3 people in sport) and to be honest there are not that many around not because we dont want them but because they a) prefer to live within their tribe environment which is certainly not in the city of sydney b) they still do not have the educational structure that the whites have i.e. because of how remote they are so they are less of them in the workplace so that then also leads to less money so they are not living within expensive cities and c) there are a few of them (probably more than a few) that dont particularly want to hang out with the whites..

Redfern is a place in Sydney where alot of aboriginals live and unfortunately it is not a safe area for white people. Crime and unemployment are high and white people are generally not welcome. This cannot be said for the entire area but certainly for alot of it. Taxi cabs will not go there nor will the police some of the time!

It is a no win situation. Whites dismiss the blacks but then the blacks do themselves no favours with sometimes how they behave and isolate themselves but then they say they are isolated by us and behave towards us in retaliation. Its an impossible situation.

When the government changed in 2007 they issued an apology which most of the country was against as we very much have the view that we should not apologise for something we did not personally do nor did our father's generation but it was made anyway. Whites were up in arms (not all of them) and from what I can see besides mending some broken souls and hearts, in the 'living' sense it hasnt made a lot of difference.

The tribes in the very remote areas are provided with medical help and education by the royal flying doctors service and community programmes, domestic violence is a massive problem amongst the tribal communities and in alot of places it is illegal to sell aboriginals alcohol so unfortunately they resort to drinking petrol which obviously doesnt help the situation at all as then more health services are required etc etc.. Honestly it goes on and on and on..

[macroban]

For a New Zealand perspective may I suggest this movie - but it does not make for pleasant viewing.

[jumpinjackflash]

BRILLIANT FILM!

very graphic in terms of violence, although, come to think of it so is Pulp Fiction, Hostel, Reservoir Dogs etc.

[*Bob*]

The impression I got was that, for all the problems which undoubtedly exist, Kiwis seem to have a certain amount of pride in their indigenous history, whereas your average Australian seems to regard theirs as a bit of an inconvenient embarrassment.

[Brendan]

Talking about Once Were Warriors, apart from the very basic similarities of the racial issues from a colonial past effecting a modern day society the comparison with Australia probably stops there. The indigenous people of New Zealand are racially, culturally and linguistically completely different to those of Australia.

[BJL]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> The impression I got was that, for all the

> problems which undoubtedly exist, Kiwis seem to

> have a certain amount of pride in their indigenous

> history, whereas your average Australian seems to

> regard theirs as a bit of an inconvenient

> embarrassment.

I came away from my only trip to Australia/NZ with almost exactly the same thoughts, Bob.

[jollybaby]

I agree with Strawbs that a big reason for the communities not integrating more is fact that Australia is one enormous place and rightly or wrongly that allows aboriginal and non aboriginal groups to live quite separately.

I used to work in accident and emergency in West Australia and a number of the kidney dialysis patients were aboriginal and had come from communities hundreds and hundreds of miles away for their treatment in Perth. Basically they had to make the decision whether to stay at home and slowly die of kidney failure or uproot and live in a city miles from family. Understandably coming to metropolitan Perth from outback Australia with no family/ friends/job and kidney failure is not a great situation and a large group used to spend their time asleep/and or drunk outside in the churchyard across the road from the hospital. If a patient didn't turn up for treatment they would send a nurse over the road to go and look for them.

[will dex]

edited for OT

[MadWorld74]

I don't like the NSW national anthem. Boring. Not enough pomp!

[Jah Lush]

It can't be any worse than our awful dirge, God Save The Queen. Dull, boring, uninspiring and completely out of step of the times.

[jrussel]

Some interesting points being made on this thread. Not particularly relevant to my question, but I have given up on anyone responding to that in a sensible manner.

[Keef]

I think there are obvious similarities between Aboriginal people and Maori people, but I'd say that closer comparisons can be drawn between Aboriginals and native Americans.

People talk about the drinking and domestic abuse (also very common with native Americans). What do people really expect when a way of life is destroyed, and all self respect taken away, to the point that rather than be trusted with state money as benefits, people are given food vouchers that can only be redeemed in certain big supermarkets that have contracts with the government. They can't use them in local stores, and are not allowed to buy drink.

[Huguenot]

Was it a sensible question dogster?

You were observing that you couldn't differentiate between a limited number of Ozzies and Kiwis based on their social behaviour - by your definition they were all Ozzies? Does this make Brits who behave the same way Ozzie too? Or South Africans, or Americans or Canadians? Are they all Ozzie?

Or converseley are they all Brits? Or are they all South African?

Or are you saying you can't differentiate the accent? Does that mean that all Brits are American for the Chinese and that's okay? Are you happy to be characterised and treated according to your accent or your skin colour?

The nature of your question demonstrates an ugly prejudice and egocentricity that belies sense. Perhaps you're providing these people with a label that you have contrived because in your view they have no identity of their own, just the one that you (in your magnanimity) have decided to impose upon them? Is this incipient megalomania?

Surely your fellow posters are sensibly avoiding a direct response for fear of exposing you to your true nature. They're protecting you? You should be both proud and ashamed by the philanthropy.

[MadWorld74]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> It can't be any worse than our awful dirge, God

> Save The Queen. Dull, boring, uninspiring and

> completely out of step of the times.

That's why I like it!!! Bring back the days of the Raj. When Britain ruled the world.

(shut up all of you, don't rise to the bait)

[jrussel]

The gentleman I had the disagreement with, which provoked my OP, had been behaving in a way that I consider "typical" of many Australians living in London. Not all Australians, of course. I recognise that not all members of a nationality behave in the same way. Obviously. Nonetheless, tendencies can often be observed. Call them stereotypes if you will. Many (not all) stereotypes are based on an actual tendency, like it or not.

Anyway, the point is, that the young gentleman was behaving in a way which I consider to fit this stereotype. My stereotype of young Australians living in London. I therefore told him as much. He told me I had no right to accuse him of behaving like an Australian, because he was in fact a Kiwi. He said he was very offended. I told him I didn't really care. I said something along the lines of "Aussie/Kiwi - whatever, you are conforming to an Aussie/Kiwi stereotype". Which seemed quite reasonable as he was, as far as I was concerned, and as far as I am concerned there is no distinguishable stereotypical behavioural differences between Aussies/Kiwis in this particular regard. Whereas there is, say, between an Aussie/Kiwi and a Japanese person. Again, talking about stereotypes here.

I quite like Japanese people but that is by the by.

Anyway - he got in a big huff and said that I can't just bundle Aussies and Kiwis into one big stereotype and i tried to ask him exactly what the differences were and he stomped off. So I thought maybe someone here could give me an explanation. I think the fact is, there isn't. I was right and he was wrong and being irrational because he felt bad about what I had just pulled him up about.

[MadWorld74]

I think Mr MW74 will have to become a forum member just so that he can answer your question!