Hipsters

[RosieH]

I've met quite a few of you.

The idea that you have any notion what hipsters do when they're out having fun, beyond what you've read in The Guardian or Telegraph while sitting on your arse in a suburban pub, is laughable.

[Jeremy]

They go to a pub in East London, and talk about the "4 Bs". Beards, Bikes, Beer, Brooklyn.

Am I wrong?

[Seabag]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> They go to a pub in East London, and talk about

> the "4 Bs". Beards, Bikes, Beer, Brooklyn.

>

> Am I wrong?

Jeremy = Jeremy Clarkson

[El Pibe]

oh rosie, you seem to be mistaking getting old for forgetting that you were young.

I'm pretty sure most of us expressed ourselves as part of some subcultrure or other, we wore things that we knew to be daft at the time but they were still an important part of ourselves as we forged our identity.

We haven't forgotten what we did, the parties, the drugs, the fun stupidity. it's just we've (mostly) moved on a bit.

It's the job of the old to tut about the young in a massively hypocritical fashion.

If we were all still doing it in a tragicomic parody of dorian gray (keeping a mental image of ourselves forever young whilst our physical aspect chugs toward decrepitude) then it would be us deservfing of others' mirth.

I guess my issue with the current expression are two-fold. Firstly the nod to victorian/edwardian england. It annoys me because in a world where we are the closest we've ever been to the workhouses, slums and vast inequality of that era, glorifying the privileged elite by, well, the privileged elite seems to me to be distasteful.

Secondly it's the knowing irony. My own era, acid house and early rave, felt like a genuine social revolution. There *was* a genuine coming together across social strata (however brief it lasted until booze, coke and money divided us all again) and we felt we were undermining the brave new world mapped out by thatcher and friedman, we would subvert it through drugs, love and music and it would change us all forever.

Yeah it didn't but the naive idealism was heartfelt.

I don't like the idea that somehow everything is a joke, cultural bric-a-brac to show society how you're in on the joke and they're missing the point, what we need now more than ever is a fight for social and political change, not finding ever weirder ways to exploit commercialism.

If hipsters wore blue overalls with a red book in the pocket whilst having their mioaw miaow and craft beer i think somehw I'd be happier.

But it's their world now, and once they've donned their suits and started working for big business, cv replete with all that entrepreneurial experience it won't be long before they're sitting in a suburban pub tutting at the latest daft notions/fashions of the youth of tomorrow.

If they weren't I'd be rather concerned.

And proof that even grumpy-old-me wore stupid baggy things and had mates sporting pony tails as we gurned and twitched in our yoof....

 

[Jah Lush]

Lovely post El Pibe.

[Jeremy]

Seabag Wrote:

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> Jeremy = Jeremy Clarkson

Add a beer gut, about 20 years, 5 inches (of height), sacks of money, an ego and a sprinkling of "light-hearted" racism... maybe.

[Otta]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Firstly the nod to victorian/edwardian

> england. It annoys me because in a world where we

> are the closest we've ever been to the workhouses,

> slums and vast inequality of that era, glorifying

> the privileged elite by, well, the privileged

> elite seems to me to be distasteful.

This^^^

I have no problem with any fashion, whether I actually like it or not, but with these specific people I just want to slap them and tell them that dressing up is for children.

[Robert Poste's Child]

It's the odd oil-and-water mix of ironic cultural knowingness with a complete lack of real self-awareness. Someone I know talks a lot about their successful self-actualising career Djing, blogging, vintage swap parties, painting and being a performance artist while living in a big flat paid for by the bank of mummy and daddy. Hopelessly unreliable and the attention span of a goldfish.

[Robert Poste's Child]

I realise the defining factor is not irony but curating, particularly of the self. Maybe it's partly due to being brought up on social media.

[titch juicy]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> oh rosie, you seem to be mistaking getting old for

> forgetting that you were young.

>

> I'm pretty sure most of us expressed ourselves as

> part of some subcultrure or other, we wore things

> that we knew to be daft at the time but they were

> still an important part of ourselves as we forged

> our identity.

> We haven't forgotten what we did, the parties, the

> drugs, the fun stupidity. it's just we've (mostly)

> moved on a bit.

>

> It's the job of the old to tut about the young in

> a massively hypocritical fashion.

>

> If we were all still doing it in a tragicomic

> parody of dorian gray (keeping a mental image of

> ourselves forever young whilst our physical aspect

> chugs toward decrepitude) then it would be us

> deservfing of others' mirth.

>

> I guess my issue with the current expression are

> two-fold. Firstly the nod to victorian/edwardian

> england. It annoys me because in a world where we

> are the closest we've ever been to the workhouses,

> slums and vast inequality of that era, glorifying

> the privileged elite by, well, the privileged

> elite seems to me to be distasteful.

>

> Secondly it's the knowing irony. My own era, acid

> house and early rave, felt like a genuine social

> revolution. There *was* a genuine coming together

> across social strata (however brief it lasted

> until booze, coke and money divided us all again)

> and we felt we were undermining the brave new

> world mapped out by thatcher and friedman, we

> would subvert it through drugs, love and music and

> it would change us all forever.

> Yeah it didn't but the naive idealism was

> heartfelt.

> I don't like the idea that somehow everything is a

> joke, cultural bric-a-brac to show society how

> you're in on the joke and they're missing the

> point, what we need now more than ever is a fight

> for social and political change, not finding ever

> weirder ways to exploit commercialism.

> If hipsters wore blue overalls with a red book in

> the pocket whilst having their mioaw miaow and

> craft beer i think somehw I'd be happier.

>

> But it's their world now, and once they've donned

> their suits and started working for big business,

> cv replete with all that entrepreneurial

> experience it won't be long before they're sitting

> in a suburban pub tutting at the latest daft

> notions/fashions of the youth of tomorrow.

> If they weren't I'd be rather concerned.

>

> And proof that even grumpy-old-me wore stupid

> baggy things and had mates sporting pony tails as

> we gurned and twitched in our yoof....

>

>

>

I agree with most things you post on here EP, but I think this one is perhaps a little guilty of over-romanticising the past. I was also very much part of that scene- illegal raves in Warehouses in and around London and in natural caves in the lake district, in the late 80's and early 90's.

I'm not sure any of us thought we were being subversive or changing anything. It was just a case of tripping, pilling, speeding or a combination of all three, feeling good and dancing. I don't remember a single conversation with any fellow ravers about politics, Thatcher or any important stuff, rather we just talked about how fucked we were and how good it felt.

But, that's just my experience.

[miga]

.

[????]

But youth culture is mainly about dancing and drugs and sex and dressing diiferent and feeling part of something.....the political dimensions attached to youth culture are well overplayed by sociology lecturers (as I well remeber from a Sociology degree in the 80s :) )

[miga]

.

[????]

44 or so, I'd say :)

[El Pibe]

Fair enough Titch I don't disagree at all.

I don't think it was politics with a big p as such, it was more that we spent a magical year communing with people from across the spectrum, potter casuals who the previous year would have bashed fookin students were suddenly hugging us and us and we'd be joining them on the terraces the next day and we really, briefly, thought the the class system was going and a wave of social unity would sweep away the vested interests of entrenched power.

Obviously it was just us fookin students over intellectualising it all, the casuals were just enjoying the drugs, then the bad coke and were soon back to their 10 pints of lager and bashing fookin' students. But again that's the role we were supposed to play wasn't it ;)

Miga, I think that was rather my point, or at least i hope it was, probably got lost in the wistful mix somewhere.

Brooker's point was that they thought it was a niche comedy about a certain type, but what happened is that charmless, chancer meeja type has become a whole subculture, the rise of the idiots being utterly prophetic, and I think that's what he was lamenting.

[El Pibe]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 44 or so, I'd say :)

oh jaysus, 2 years!!! Which one are the tories again, fianna fail or fianna gael?

[miga]

.

[El Pibe]

but isn't it that, as Bone Box sang, the devil is in the deee-tail?

;)

[david_carnell]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Obviously it was just us fookin students over

> intellectualising it all....

Just you. ;-)

[????]

Hipsters never had this...

[????]

PS I am sure that's Rosie at 39 seconds

[LadyDeliah]

Lol, totally looks like Rosie.

[El Pibe]

ha, it's her!!

[RosieH]

Heh, no it's not. 1988?! I'm a little too young for that, you mofos! But thanks, Quidlington - does look like me and I did sport a spiral perm at the time.

Now then, Peebster, I know you are sincere, but how can I put this kindly? On this, you're an idiot! I think you're drawing too many inferences based on your own hypothesis. Victoriana has been a thing for ages. The nice Time for Tea man on Shoreditch High Street has been sporting his handsome moustaches for years - once considered an eccentricity, now a subject for ridicule by the be-gileted masses? Are Steampunkers hipsters? Where do the neon 80s revivalists and the lumberjacks fit with your workhouse appropriation narrative? What makes you so sure that other people's love of tweed is ironic where David Carnell's is virtuous?

At university in psychoanalysis, we learned to draw conclusions from the evidence before us, not seek to find confirmation of our own supposition! (apply winky face, if you can bear it)

I'm good friends with many people a lot of commenters on this thread would call hipsters. Artists, musicians, DJs, actors, film makers, tech entrepreneurs, weird 'quirky' events organisers in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. Without exception, they are pursuing their passions with conviction and determination, and they are genuine and enthusiastic when others do likewise.

Not one of them is living off the "bank of mummy and daddy" (hmm, cliche much?).

There is a joy about them, because they're having fun and loving what they do. It's refreshing and inspiring and something that is utterly lacking from this thread. Without exception, I have never once heard any of them sneer at anyone else, again, something I cannot say about this thread, some of which makes for pretty ugly reading.

And Otta - dressing up is for kids? Singularly joyless. I'm currently torn between wearing my velvet minnie mouse ears or my red velvet Snow White bow headband for the Godfathers gig tonight.

[Otta]

Dressing up for a gig or a party is one thing. Dressing up to walk down the street so people will look at you is quite another.

But I think we've all got the message Rosie, you're like, uber cool and way more tuned in than the rest of us. Bravo.