fterPrince Harry's Remark Now Charles Is In THe Spotlight.

[jaybee82]

Hahaha...glad you cleared that one up!

[LegalEagle-ish]

matthew123 Wrote:

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> That S***y does not find it offensive is

> irrelevant, however Harry might be such a dope

> that he does not link it in any way to racism.

> After all Harry's exposure to the world before

> bonding with his pal S***y could have been limited

> to Childrens TV, which based on what we now know

> about the Royal Family intellect is not that far

> fetched. Remember this is the idiot who went to a

> fancy dress party as an SS officer.

>

> I was once chatting to an Aussie is an open office

> and he quite loudly said (as they do ;-), "we're

> playing the P***'s in cricket", and whilst

> everyone was shocked an Aussie girl gave him a

> stunned look and told him, "you can't say that

> over here " ... so it is possible for people

> detached to make an innocent remark even if other

> people (us in UK) associate it with 100% racism.

Not that the Aussies could be described as a rascist people of course, leving aside their ethnic cleansing of aboriginies and leaving asylum seekers to die in boats a mile off shore of course.

[SeanMacGabhann]

damn you Carnell!

But the point is a good one as no-one seems to be making the point that IF Pakistani's had an empire which included Britain and IF any vaguely looking caucasian living in that empire were routinely beaten up and called "a f****ing Brit", then there might be cause for "brits" to equate the two terms

When the term "Paki" isn't routinely used by thugs with deliberate malice to anyone who happens to have a skin tone darker than mothers pride bread, then maybe we can enjoy calling each other by whatever part of the world we come from. We aren't there yet

[Jah Lush]

jaybee82 Wrote:

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> Such a shame as we people from Britain are often

> called 'Brits', so why cant the same logic be

> applied with absolutely no malice intended?

It's because of the history behind the term. Maybe you're too young to remember skinheads going out Paki-bashing in the late 60s and early 70s. I don't particularly like being called a Brit either but being of Asian descent or having a darker skin and being called a Paki even if you're from Pakistan or not is disrespecful and most certainly a derogatory remark.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Agreed.

[PeckhamRose]

Hm.

"being called a Paki even if you're from Pakistan or not is disrespecful and most certainly a derogatory remark"

You are tarring everyone with the same brush. To play devil's advocate for a minute, if I were to use the term I would not be being racist, because I am not. And I have met people who originated from Pakistan who are not offended by it and refuse to be offended by it.

If the supposed offendee refused to feel offended then the offender has lost his power.

Defining anyone by where they come from - is it as offensive as describing anyone by their illness, or the colour of their eyes.

[RosieH]

PeckhamRose, do you feel the same about the word n*gger?

Words are imbued with power and meaning that go beyond your exact meaning in the very moment you say them. A word that has strong racist connotations doesn't lose them just because you don't consider yourself racist.

People have been trying to reclaim the word c*nt for years - it still remains one of the most offensive in the lexicon

[matthew123]

Certain abbreviated names in the UK at this moment in time are considered derogatory - regardless of context or tone, whereas in other parts of the world they are considered innocent as they don't have the same association. For instance in the UK we can call an Australian an Aussie but maybe not an Argentine an Argie.

As for the word c*nt, what are people trying to reclaim it for? as it's already in wide use up and down the country in same manner as f*ck.

[PeckhamRose]

To quote myself, "To play devil's advocate for a minute".

I was just seeing what people say.

Chris Rock said black people (is it still okay to say black people?) - black people call bad black people "niggers".

I wouldn't!

[RosieH]

mea culpa, I didn't read further up the thread to see the devil's advocate bit

but you're being incredibly disingenuous if you're comparing "paki" to "black people". You wouldn't use nigger but you would use paki - they're both perjorative terms - what to you makes the difference?

[PeckhamRose]

My point is I don't have the courage of my convictions and dreams to reclaim the language.

It's not just the people concerned who are not all the same and not all offended by it specially when they know it is not being used offensively, either. It is liberals and language fascists (not at ALL suggesting anyone on this forum is - making a general point is all) who tell me what words I can and can't use that really pee me off.

[TillieTrotter]

The War of the Roses>:D

[microbite]

Good call :))

[PeckhamRose]

I have just found an "A". Anyone know where it came from?

[Mick Mac]

For Peckham Rose - (whom I support in being objective on this issue - I repeat my earlier post):

From Wikipedia:

"According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups"

Being Irish, I'll use myself as an example - please, no offence intended to any other Irish people.

Racism is sometimes bad (Irish people are stupid) or good (Irish people are very hospitable and welcoming). If you say either you are being racist (even if you are giving a compliment).

If however someone refers to me as "Paddy" I can say its very offensive - but not racist - under the above dictionary defination in any case. I would say the word "Paki" is potentially offensive and may often be said in a way that is intended to be offensive, so if it offends people it should perhaps not be used. However based upon the dictionary definition I'm not sure it correct to say its racist.

[LegalEagle-ish]

If you don't want to deliberately offend people, why would you use language that you know offends people? Simple really.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

If you don't want to deliberately offend people, why would you use language that you know offends people? Simple really.

Sometimes people do not even realise they are being offensive and insensitive like people from "Country" still calling Black people "coloured"...

[LegalEagle-ish]

Ignorance is no defence in law

[Tony.London Suburbs]

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

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> Ignorance is no defence in law

can be "bliss" for some though....

[PeckhamRose]

Ignorance may not be a defence but if it is innocent ignorance ie you are using language to someone that others may find offensive although you do not realise or intend it, and you are not racist / offensive in your heart, and they are really not being offended or upset, but some 3rd party wants to sue, what happens?

Also, as in the porn and sex situation, what about consent? If someone genuinely consents that their friend can refer to them as Taffy Brummie Pommie Paki or Paddy or whatever, and they refer back to their mate similarly, if it is consensual what's the situation in law?

I am with James May - One law Don't Be A Prat. All the rest is being sensible.

[charliecharlie]

I think it is entirely down to context of use...

Australians often use the terms Aussies to describe themselves (their choice really...)

Black guys in a social/banter situ sometimes call each other nig*** , however in another context... ie. white guy hurls verbal abuse across the road at black guy, it is clearly NOT acceptable and, in fact, is breaking the law.

The term ?Brit? is often used in a negative way, but as the British don?t have a long history of being oppressed and racially abused, the term seems to have less bile/malice attached to it.

However, I can not think of ANY context where the term Paki is acceptable (and the use of it would probably be termed racist in the eyes of the law... any precedents here Legal Forumites???). The term Paki has historically been use in a racist way. It has vile connotations. It is also sadly used as a generic term ie the p*** shop, to describe a corner shop that may very well be run by Indians (ignorance is not innocence in the eyes of the law and all that).

I can not see, under any circs, that the term is acceptable!

Give an example that proves me wrong and I will re-think!!!!

oh... and it all started with a 'joke'...

[Tony.London Suburbs]

charliecharlie Wrote:

-Give an example that proves me wrong and I will re-think!!!!

oh... and it all started with a 'joke'...

Example:

The Year 1971(my first at work).

The Location:Somerset House,The Strand.

The scenario: I'm talking to Rahman,a Pakistani colleague, and he tells me that he has just arrived back from having the delightful experience of being "in the majority" as he had just visited Pakistan.

"Back to England" he thought and the first person who directly addressed him shouted out "Taxi,Paki?"...I'm "Home" he told me.(6)....

So there you are charliex2.....

Actually,on further reflection,that could be construed as "Racist" so you are right M8..:)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

oh... and it all started with a 'joke'...

It usually starts out with a kiss or am I thinking of a Song....::o

[charliecharlie]

oh lordie me! are we heading back to the 'song game' Tony.London.Suburbs? Do you think we would have more fun there??:))

and ref your fine story, point taken and point taken... if you get my drift

(tu)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

charliecharlie Wrote:

oh lordie me! are we heading back to the 'song game' Tony.London.Suburbs? Do you think we would have more fun there??:))

and ref your fine story, point taken and point taken... if you get my drift (tu)

Great Guy was Rahman-always laughing with his distinctive moustache. He spent the next couple of days saying that phrase to me whenever he saw me and he used to hold me and say "Bloody English!-I KNEW I was back "home" ...

and we both used to fall about laughing.Great Office:There was Lal Singh,Rahman and Mr.Patel the most "English" Gent with his rolled-up Umbrella(even in Summer)I've ever worked with,I hope they have fared well over the last 38 years.