On the Ball (new Football Focus)

[Sandperson]

I don't know, it wasn't that depressing. The first goal was class and I think their heads dropped a bit after that. I thought Beckham started to look like his old self and Wright-Phillips was superb, excellent work rate. We had some fairly notable absesnses last night against what was a pretty full strength Spain side.

[????]

Mathew....that's not strictly true...you need luck in tournaments and England don't always get it...and we're shite at penalities. I'd have said we COULD have won any of the following tournaments

1982 - we went home unbeaten becuase of the mad format then...we were probably the best team in the group stages

1986 - Maradonna beat us singlehandedly (GET IT)...other than him Argentina were very average and we nearly beat them...I think we'd have made the final..thn who knows

1990-enough said, we were far better than West Germany by the latter stages, we'd have won apart from penalties

1996 - penalties again stopped us

1998 - penalties but I think we'd have been out in the next round

2002 - a real opportunity...no especially good teams, we were poor but had the players

2006 - the biggest opportunity..Sven's awful tactics and selection meant that we never got going in an emminently winnable tournament, won by a well organised but very average Italy

[Mick Mac]

???? - my view on England's record

1966 - won at home

1966 to date - rubbish

:'(

[????]

But MM...pretty average teams win tournaments

1990

1994

2002

2006

all won by not especially good teams

[Atila Reincarnate]

According to those pundits allegedly who know about such things, England is a side full of world class players. Oh yea??? I didn't see any in our side last night, I saw 11 on the opposing side. They are class, we were poor, and we've got no chance in the world cup 2010. When and if we become as technically gifted as our opponnents we might stand a chance, until then we don't stand a earthly. Spain mugged us off last night, and were a joy to watch, we were painful to behold, all fart and no poo!!!

[Mick Mac]

????

True - But I think England have had a dearth of good managers since 1966 - Bobby Robson being perhaps the only one to put a good team together and I agree should have won it in 1990.

[red devil]

At least we won't have the tabloids big build-up to the next World Cup about how we are going to win it!

[ratty]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> At least we won't have the tabloids big build-up

> to the next World Cup about how we are going to

> win it!

Eh? Of course we will, we have it all the bloody time.

England football team is wnak anyway. Could not give a flying fook about the NT at all.

[Keef]

I still love the international tournaments way more than any domestic / european league or tounament. However, the qualifying stages can be dull, and the friendlies are shite!

[Atila Reincarnate]

I can never get as enthusiastic about International tournaments in the same way that I do with Arsenal. It's just not the same. If it's a choice between us or the national side doing well, sorry it's Arsenal everytime. And I know there are more & more people out there who feel the same.

[Keef]

You're probably right Atila, and It would be hard to beat the feeling of seeing Liverpool lift the champs league a few years back, but I just love that thing when you're in the pub with all your mates watching England, and you're all on the same side, and you feel a bit of pride (until you see Englnd fans involved in some punch ups).

[Atila Reincarnate]

If we could play the way Brazil did against Italy the other night I'm sure my passion for national game might be rekindled.

[Annasfield]

Club over country every time for me too.

How does the banner go? "We're not English, we're Scouse" ;-)

[mockney piers]

I agree that 86 was winnable, 90 we should have, and 96 we really hit our stride, a joy to watch until those dreaded penalties.

Barring that then yes, pretty awful and Ericsson's tenure was an utter waste of potentially talented teams.

Having watch Spain frustrate me just as much over the years there's nothing to say things can't change, but last night was definitely a good lesson to show how much we need to progress over the next 18 months or so.

There's a very good review of the game here: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/campeon/freno/elpepudep/20090212elpepudep_1/Tes

Which basically says Xavi is the heartbeat of the team, that though England were poor, without Rooney and Gerrard it was a C team *coughs*. And that despite Capello England haven't evolved at the same rate as it's clubs, that we were England of old and nothing to be afraid of, especially when we didn't play to the strengths of the towering forwards in the second half.

There was also a bit of criticism of Torres as they marvelled at Spain's patience, saying he's been infected by the pace of the Premiership and was snatching at chances that the other players had the maturity not to waste.

[matthew123]

Interesting point about Torres, but I think that's a little to do with lack of confidence compared with last season, him snatching at chances.

[mockney piers]

Inclined to agree that he was trying to hard to impress himself upon the team, when the goals and chances will come for him, but it's an attractive theory.

I guess we could take from that that either England should learn those lessons, or it should play more like a premiership team, but at them moment we're in a rubbish football limbo, neither classy and patient nor direct and effective.

[matthew123]

Nah I don't go along with that theory Piers, look at the pass Alonso made last night for David Villa, or the goals scored for Brazil by Elano and Robinho. It's a bit like Craig Burley, on Setanta Sports, blaming Liverpool's zonal marking for conceding goals without addressing why all the other teams in the league who man mark don't keep clean sheets every week..

What worries me about Capello, btw I'm very happy to see England lose, is why are the likes of Heskey, Crouch and Carlton Cole getting minutes on the pitch ahead of players like Michael Owen (when fit)? The one thing which I find very odd is how on earth David James is England's number 1... extraodinary! We all know David James still switches off in games, and the higher the pressure the more likely he'll fumble the ball. Capello may get England to the World Cup final or semi final... but with David James in goal it's an accident waiting to happen! I'll never forget how David James single handedly cost Liverpool the title in 1996/97 season and then came out with a bag of excuses regarding his Nintendo was to blame... hopeless!

[Jah Lush]

It only takes one friendly after the highs of Croatia and Germany and oh dear suddenly we're shit again. I really don't think we're as bad as all that. Spain were excellent but they were up against a seriously depleted England side.

We can certainly take some lessons home with us and I'm sure one of the things Fabio Capello learnt last night was that Matthew Upson ain't bloody good enough.

[????]

I guess the question really is just how good are Spain Mockney? We completley dominated Germany and don't forget we recently massacred a team that everyone, until then, rated highly - Croatia...we didn't have anything like our A team out there last night but Spain looked a notch above us but I'm still reasonably upbeat for South Africa...you must be delighted as you've 2 decent options as I think Spain look by a mile favourites but England could well feature...

[mockney piers]

I actually thought there were alot of positives to take away from that game, and I think I said as much in my first reaction to the game. I didn't think we were all that bad at all, but as you say quids, how good are Spain, awesome.

In fact the closest they've come to losing in their ludicrously successful 29 match run was that desperately horrible game against a brutal and cynical Italy. I think what I was getting at above was that you can't play Spain on their terms unless you're an on song Argentina or Brazil basically.

[Keef]

How can anyone have a go at Heskey for England since his recall? Tell me something he has done wrong.

[matthew123]

I like Heskey and I wish Rafa had signed him during the transfer window. The complaint against Heskey is more the resultant football that comes by having him in the team.

[Atila Reincarnate]

For those of you who support teams in the Champione League this season - be afraid, be vey afraid. Here are some of Barcaa stats so far this season. 22 games, 19 victories, 98 goals in all competetions from 638 attempts on goal!!!

They play the fastest and best football I've seen played by any team in Europe this season. Whoever manages to turn them over should win the Champs League.

[matthew123]

Anything is possible in a Final with nerves and strokes of luck, but to beat them over 2 legs is going to be nigh on impossible. Having said that, the Premiership team best equipped to beat Barcelona over 2 legs is probably Liverpool with their conservative style of play - but even then Barcelona could easily sweep Liverpool aside.

[Atila Reincarnate]

Barca would kill Liverpool over 2 legs, especially with a conservative style of play. If you sit back and invite them to come at you for 90 miniutes they will run you into the ground.