Cycling and the ED street grid

[Earl Aelfheah]

I saw an unpleasant confrontation this morning on Heber Road. A 4X4 was driving very close to a cyclist whilst the driver sounded their horn and shouted at them to 'get over to the left'. The Cyclist was shouting back 'are you trying to run me over?' which upset my children (who I was walking to nursery) - as they took this literally to mean that the lady was trying to kill the cyclist.

The point is, that I see this a lot. I cycle myself (as well as drive) and the 'grid' of East Dulwich has some very narrow streets. I know how often cars pass very close to cyclists and in turn, force them to pass too close to parked vehicles.

What made this whole incident even more ridiculous, was that there was a van about 200 metres up the road blocking it (and clearly visible had the driver been looking ahead). So once the car had zoomed past the cyclist, it had to stop again almost immediately. I hope this made the driver reflect on how pointless their aggressive behaviour was.

What struck me, is the complete look of shock on the woman?s face at the fact that the cyclist had shouted back at her, or that they may have felt she was trying to hurt them. She didn't seem to recognise how aggressive and intimidating it is to have a 4X4 tailgate you whilst hooting it's horn, when you're on a bike.

I see this all the time around here. It happens a lot on Crystal Palace Road, where vehicle pass very fast and very close, only to cut in front of you and slam on their breaks (either because of a speed bump or an oncoming vehicle). This shows a complete lack of general awareness of anything other what is immediately in front of you. I make the following plea to the drivers of ED:

1. If you aren?t actually going faster, on average, than the bike in front of you, just stay behind them, rather than overtaking, dropping back, overtaking, dropping back etc. Each time you unnecessarily pass a bike, when there isn?t really the time or space to do so purposefully, you?re increasing the likelihood of an accident.

2. Accept that it is often quite proper for a bike to ?take the lane?, especially where there are parked cars, or lots of children who could run out (as in the example this morning), or it?s just a very narrow street (as is the case on many of the streets in ?the grid?. Here?s some explanation of why it?s not always smart for bikes to drive very close to the left. http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/cyclists-why-do-they-ride-in-the-middle-of-the-road-_62617

3. Generally be a little patient and think about how intimidating your behaviour may seem to someone who is in a more vulnerable position than you.

[kford]

Remember the old government information film about treating treating bikes as if they are a small car? That.

[bawdy-nan]

This is an even worse problem on Hunts Slip Road when the cyclists are mostly children and teenagers on their way to Kingsdale. The quantity and extraordinary driving behaviour of the large 4x4s dropping off at Dulwich College is breathtaking.

They double park, pull out without any warning, park on double yellows and zig zags - it really is shocking, especially considering that they are parents dropping off their children and the cyclists whose lives they are putting in danger are also children.

I know that terrible parent parking / driving near school gates is a problem for all schools but this is exacerbated, I suppose, by the fact that the school attracts pupils from a huge distance and also by the ludicrous size of the vehicles.

I am absolutely convinced that there will be a terrible injury in this road. The two, wide, rough tracks on either side of this road are crying out to be made into cycle paths.

[rodneybewes]

Any regular cyclist will tell you that their biggest enemy is anyone distracted and on a timetable. That's lorries, delivery vans, couriers, and of course the very worst of all..... the school-run.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I wonder whether we ought to have some "Cyclists. Ride central on narrow roads." signs up on 'the grid'.

[mynamehere]

Huge demonstration on safe shared streets. Please come. Please bring the whole family. We are actively being denied safe streets and I just cannot see who benefits from the danger. Cars and vans are not being "delayed" by cyclists. There would be mayhem, grid lock and air you'd have to cut and squeeze to breathe.

November 15th

12 noon Bedford Square

Oxford Street will close for us

2pm Marble Arch

http://stopthekilling.org.uk

[James]

We were cut up by a huge 4x4 with tinted windows the other day alongside Peckham Rye. When we hooted back the woman made obscene gestures at us. Drawing up alongside her for a heated exchange (I know, we should have ignored her but we were angry) revealed that she was small, white and of middle-class appearance.

I have often experienced people driving these cars in a selfish, aggressive way. Cocooned as they are in an expensive, tank-like vehicle that's higher than everyone else, do they think they are superior to rest of us?

[northlondoner]

James . Really. What did her ethnicity and class have to do with it? Did it make you smile and doff your cap?

[Robert Poste's Child]

I hate it when drivers hoot at me just to get out of their way. The self-importance is unbelievable.

Two particularly dangerous things I experience regularly are drivers overtaking and immediately either turning left or braking as I'm cycling downhill, for example down CPR, and drivers doing unexpected three-point turns on quieter roads.

Drivers, please remember that you may have power-assisted steering but cycles don't, and in wet weather we need additional stopping distance too.

It's also worth remembering that the fact you live in a street doesn't obviate the need to indicate and use your mirrors.

[Henry_17]

rahrahrah,

That is a fine list. I would add to it a request that drivers use indicators when cyclists are behind them. Many drivers seem to believe that they do not need to indicate for cyclists as they would for a car. However this demonstrates ignorance of the fact that indicating is actually more important for cyclists not less.

Henry

[Townleygreen]

I agree, rahrahrah, thankyou for your helpful list.

[????]

Oooh. 4x4s and Private schools I'm doing great in my Chippy Lefty bingo card today. Can we have some steretypes on the ethnicity and gender of of those most likley to speed in 8 year old plus BMWs and not use their indicatsors in everyone's completley anecdotal experience please?

[James Barber]

At Planning Sub-committee A last night I helped ensure that the DCPS planning application we were deciding has a requirement for them to develope a protocol with local police so that they will assist the local police in enforcing local traffic rules with parents. That is will be reviewed by council officials after 6 mothnsand 18 months to ensure things have improved.

Clearly evidence that a small mintority are abusing the local police and residents asking them politely to behave reasonably.

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is an even worse problem on Hunts Slip Road

> when the cyclists are mostly children and

> teenagers on their way to Kingsdale. The quantity

> and extraordinary driving behaviour of the large

> 4x4s dropping off at Dulwich College is

> breathtaking.

>

> They double park, pull out without any warning,

> park on double yellows and zig zags - it really is

> shocking, especially considering that they are

> parents dropping off their children and the

> cyclists whose lives they are putting in danger

> are also children.

>

> I know that terrible parent parking / driving near

> school gates is a problem for all schools but this

> is exacerbated, I suppose, by the fact that the

> school attracts pupils from a huge distance and

> also by the ludicrous size of the vehicles.

>

> I am absolutely convinced that there will be a

> terrible injury in this road. The two, wide, rough

> tracks on either side of this road are crying out

> to be made into cycle paths.

[johnie]

Very good post rahrahrah

[bawdy-nan]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oooh. 4x4s and Private schools I'm doing great in

> my Chippy Lefty bingo card today. Can we have some

> steretypes on the ethnicity and gender of of those

> most likley to speed in 8 year old plus BMWs and

> not use their indicatsors in everyone's completley

> anecdotal experience please?

What a bizarre response.

Yes, it might be anecdotal in that I have seen it happen but it is also a situation (very dangerous behaviour by parents dropping off their children in large cars) acknowledged by the Head of DCPS and, from what I understand, he's working very hard to try and address it. I know that they have a warden right outside the school gates but their presence, welcome as it is, doesn't seem to deter the determined drivers of MASSIVE vehicles

This kind of thing is a problem for all schools but especially ones where the children are younger and come from further away because they tend to be driven. This is the case with private schools.

The problem is further exacerbated by Hunts Slip Road being an obvious "safe route" for cycling to Kingsdale School and, because that is a secondary,and the public transport is shockingly bad, is more likely to have pupils cycling.

If you doubt it, you could go and take a look yourself. Or maybe you just want to wait until there is an accident?

[bawdy-nan]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> At Planning Sub-committee A last night I helped

> ensure that the DCPS planning application we were

> deciding has a requirement for them to develope a

> protocol with local police so that they will

> assist the local police in enforcing local traffic

> rules with parents. That is will be reviewed by

> council officials after 6 mothnsand 18 months to

> ensure things have improved.

> Clearly evidence that a small mintority are

> abusing the local police and residents asking them

> politely to behave reasonably.

>

Thank you for this, by the way

Is there any chance, I wonder, of trying to get a cycle path allocated on one of the pavements along there .... the head of DCP seemed keen and interested when I suggested it to him... and he's involved in some kind of cycling committee himself ... I realise that this is out of your physical "domain" of course

[Applespider]

Excellent post, rahrahrah. Your point on average speed is a good one. So many times drivers rev up and accelerate past only to stop at the next 'chicane' because of oncoming traffic (blocking my way because I could get through at the same time) or because there are lights up ahead which are on red. I don't mind so much when they do it with lots of space but when it feels close, it's really frustrating. You do wonder whether they'd do it if the person on the bike was one of their family rather than a faceless 'cyclist'.

Although I will add a plea to my fellow cyclists to remember to shoulder check before you signal (some could do with remembering that too) and move out. There are times when I watch people in front of me blithely move out without so much as a glance behind them. I appreciate that sometimes road conditions (e.g. a bumpy downhill) mean the priority is generally braking rather than signalling but good drivers will interpret that shoulder check as an initial warning that you may move out.

[Salsaboy]

Are these the same cyclists that jump red lights causing cars going through green lights to brake hard? No can't be. That doesn't happen does it.

[Townleygreen]

tedious contribution by Salsaboy: Are these the same cyclists that jump red lights causing cars going through green lights to brake hard? No can't be. That doesn't happen does it.

So you're saying it's OK to kill a person who is cycling because some cyclists may go through red lights?

If you're not saying that then please explain your point if you don't mind.

[rodneybewes]

Why feed the obvious troll?

[Salsaboy]

Me, a troll? I think not.

No I'm not saying it's OK to kill a person who is cycling because some cyclists may go through red lights. I'm merely pointing out that some cyclists do go through red lights with no apparent regard for their own or others safety. Obviously correct me if I'm wrong.

[StraferJack]

It's not really the issue under discussion salsa. Classic whatabouttery

[tiddles]

the discussion seems to me to be about consideration for all road users, especially on narrow roads and near schools where there have been some incidents involving people who really should know better.

simples

not the rights and wrongs of car drivers versus cyclists in general

[sillywoman]

What's 'the grid'?

[njc97]

Salsaboy: not, it's probably not the same cyclists as those who jump red lights, unless these bad drivers are waiting until they see a cyclist go over a red light and then targeting them for this behaviour, and that seems unlikely.

Of course, it probably is the same drivers who jump traffic lights because they think that an amber light means "speed up".