Is Homeopathy a sham?......... yes

[dulwichdreadlocks]

Huguenot

Why are you so vehemently against complementary medicine?

[mockney piers]

I thought that was pretty reasoned.

Unless you're suggesting tiger penis make you virile DD?

[Huguenot]

Vehement?

I just pointed out that TCM and western medicines share a common base, and that TCM also has a lunatic fringe which means you shouldn't judge it as a single body of thought.

I take chinese medicines over here, but never for clinical problems. Before I take anything for an illness I like to be confident that it has a background of success in double blind trials, and that I can manage side-effects.

[Moos]

LRon Hubble Wrote:

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> Moos

>

> i am certainly not a scientolgist if that's what

> you are suggesting, even if i were it would have

> no effect on the usefulness of Homeopathy.

> Scientologist refuse to believe that any

> psychological illness's exist, something i

> strongly disagree with. (i think that was what

> your vague impression was mistaken for)

I know nothing about Scientology, but I assume you username is a nod to the Scientology founder as well as to the Telescope - and I also thought Scientologists not only do not believe in psychological illness but also do not believe in conventional medicine. But I may be taking the thread off topic...

[Jeremy]

Queen of Dulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And to those of you who say it's all in the mind:

> A homeopathic remedy is cheaper than anything the

> conventional medical establishment has to offer.

That's because it's water.

> So even if it is a placebo (and we will never know

> for sure) I'd rather take that.

You're saying you'd actually choose homeopathic remedies over medicines with proven results? Because they're cheaper??

[dulwichdreadlocks]

If one person thinks homeopathy (and all other alternative medicine) is a sham and waste of money, and another person swears by homeopathy and has found great relief since using it: why is the person who thinks it is a sham so desperate to stop the person who believes in it believing in it?

[Reg Smeeton]

Is anyone else following the case of Simon Singh v The Chiropractors? If and when it goes to court, it's going to be a BIG story.

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2008/08/chiropractors-try-to-silence-simon.html

[Jeremy]

dulwichdreadlocks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If one person thinks homeopathy (and all other

> alternative medicine) is a sham and waste of

> money, and another person swears by homeopathy and

> has found great relief since using it: why is the

> person who thinks it is a sham so desperate to

> stop the person who believes in it believing in

> it?

There's no problem when someone tries it as a last resort, or for a non-serious complaint. The problem comes when someone actually starts to trust unproven techniques over established medicine ... this could be extremely dangerous if the condition is serious.

As a side point, it also bothers me when tax revenue is spent on homeopathic hospitals, when the benefits are totally unproven.

[mockney piers]

I must say I find the success of homeopathy something of a mystery.

Most fans of alternative therapies generally like at least a half-decent dose of ancient mystical knowledge about their treatments.

Homeopathy is just poorly thought through pseudo science invented by a bit of a loon at a time when our knowledge of chemistry was already good enough to have seen this for the nonsense it is, even if our understanding of particle physics wasn't quite mature enough to prove it.

Agree with James about people's right to do so, if they wish to use meat blessed by the hurdy-gurdy mushroom man as a topical treatment, then by all means do, but if billions of pounds is spent on blessed hurdy-gurdy mushroom man meat I can't help but think what a ridiculous waste of resources it is, and if the NHS open a state of the art hurdy-gurdy mushroom man treament centre, I feel I have a pretty good right to complain about it.

[Moos]

Not sure whether 'hurdy gurdy mushroom man' is really going to catch on, Mockers. It doesn't even acromize (is that a word?) well. I think the word you're looking for is the immortal Woo, as in 'NHS Jamma Memorial Woo Treatment Centre'

[mockney piers]

HGMM is the sound I make every time another homeopathy thread appears.

*edited for acromized caps*

[LRon Hubble]

Hi dulwichdreadlocks,

dulwichdreadlocks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If one person thinks homeopathy (and all other

> alternative medicine) is a sham and waste of

> money, and another person swears by homeopathy and

> has found great relief since using it: why is the

> person who thinks it is a sham so desperate to

> stop the person who believes in it believing in

> it?

Thats drawing a bit of a false dichotomy of the subject. On the one hand you have people who know Homeopathy offers no effective treatment, on the other hand you have people who believe it works. In the middle there are people who are unaware there is even any issue about homeopathic treatment and therefore don't question it.

All these people vote..... and as jeremy points out when the public's money is spend on treatments that are effectively water.....thats a problem. As that money may well have been directed away from a worth while cause.

The more who know just how credulous homeopathy assumes people are the better and the more it shall be sidelined for worthwhile treatments.

its not desperation its concern.

LRon

[LRon Hubble]

mockney piers

consider the thread like exercise its good for you...... (its just a pain in ar*e)

[dulwichdreadlocks]

LRon Hubble Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi dulwichdreadlocks,

>

> dulwichdreadlocks Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If one person thinks homeopathy (and all other

> > alternative medicine) is a sham and waste of

> > money, and another person swears by homeopathy

> and

> > has found great relief since using it: why is

> the

> > person who thinks it is a sham so desperate to

> > stop the person who believes in it believing in

> > it?

>

>

>

> Thats drawing a bit of a false dichotomy of the

> subject. On the one hand you have people who know

> Homeopathy offers no effective treatment, on the

> other hand you have people who believe it works.

> In the middle there are people who are unaware

> there is even any issue about homeopathic

> treatment and therefore don't question it.

>

> All these people vote..... and as jeremy points

> out when the public's money is spend on treatments

> that are effectively water.....thats a problem. As

> that money may well have been directed away from a

> worth while cause.

>

> The more who know just how credulous homeopathy

> assumes people are the better and the more it

> shall be sidelined for worthwhile treatments.

>

> its not desperation its concern.

>

> LRon

So we have 100% confirmation that Homeopathy NEVER works for anybody? That is news to me and clearly news to the NHS as well.

[Jeremy]

That is a silly thing to say... surely the emphasis should be on proving the effectiveness of the treatment (which nobody ever has), rather than the cynics disproving it.

Do you have 100% indisputable evidence that walnut whips don't cure cancer?

[antijen]

Pharmaceuticals fund most research and trials and not much room for more natural and simplistic remedies, especially if we could grow them in our gardens.I think its about what you believe in though it seriously puzzles me how many people seem to have faith in the pharmy comps, http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/codex-alimentarius.html

[dulwichdreadlocks]

antijen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pharmaceuticals fund most research and trials and

> not much room for more natural and simplistic

> remedies, especially if we could grow them in our

> gardens.I think its about what you believe in

> though it seriously puzzles me how many people

> seem to have faith in the pharmy comps,

>

>

>

Yes I agree with you.

It is confusing and shocking to me that so many people are so up in arms about homeopathy. IF they don't like homeopathy they are free not to use it.

> http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/c

> odex-alimentarius.html

[LRon Hubble]

dulwichdreadlocks

> It is confusing and shocking to me that so many people

> are so up in arms about homeopathy. IF they don't like

> homeopathy they are free not to use it.

>

>

I already explained this, its about educating people who don't know that Homeopathy is pure placebo. If you already take them and you don't have the depth of character to contemplate that you might be wrong and do some research the subject... then fine carry on taking them...put them in whatever hole you like, they have the same effect or why not give the money you are going to spend on it to charity? see if that also makes you feel better.

i am honestly shocked that people can be so fooled into taking it, Homeopathy mocks you... it is a sugar pill.... its water there are no active ingredients.

LRon

[dulwichdreadlocks]

LRon Hubble Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> dulwichdreadlocks

>

> > It is confusing and shocking to me that so many

> people

> > are so up in arms about homeopathy. IF they

> don't like

> > homeopathy they are free not to use it.

> >

> >

>

> I already explained this, its about educating

> people who don't know that Homeopathy is pure

> placebo. If you already take them and you don't

> have the depth of character to contemplate that

> you might be wrong and do some research the

> subject... then fine carry on taking them...put

> them in whatever hole you like, they have the same

> effect or why not give the money you are going to

> spend on it to charity? see if that also makes you

> feel better.

>

> i am honestly shocked that people can be so fooled

> into taking it, Homeopathy mocks you... it is a

> sugar pill.... its water there are no active

> ingredients.

>

> LRon

You have not explained to me where you get this idea from. It is presumably just your opinion.

[LRon Hubble]

Mockney Piers

if your out there, i apologize i get it, no more starting Homeopathy threads for me.... preaching to the converted? i wish.

best post award goes to

AllForNun

> i think at the end of the day it must be a gene thing,

> it just something you have that makes you different. I

> don't think it is right to shun people because they are

> attracted to people of the same sex and i 'certainly' do

> not agree with trying to get them treated. Live and let live i say.

so, is Homophobia a shame....yes!

Fu*king brilliant..

LRon

[mockney piers]

Im curious as to what you think homeopathic treatments actually are DD, and what the principles behind it are.

A quick precis perhaps?

[dulwichdreadlocks]

LRon, I'm sure you've got issues of your own in your own life and so on. Perhaps you could entertain the possibility of letting grown adults decide for themselves if they want to spend their money on homeopathy or not.

[Huguenot]

Which bit is opinion DD?

From the British Homeopathic Association:

"In homeopathy the active ingredient is highly diluted. The greater the dilution, the more potent the medicine. Laboratory research is focusing on the ability of water to retain an imprint of substances which have been dissolved in it."

I think they agree with LRon don't they?

Or do you not accept their view on what homeopathy is?

[Mark]

dulwichdreadlocks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You have not explained to me where you get this

> idea from. It is presumably just your opinion.

"Homeopathy is a system of medicine which is based on treating the individual with highly diluted substances given in mainly tablet form, which triggers the body?s natural system of healing.... They are diluted to such a degree that not one molecule of the original substance can be detected[/b]" Society of Homeopaths

"not one molecule of the original substance can be detected"! therefore, in layman's terms, it's a tablet that contains nothing. Except magic.

[edited once] for typos

[LRon Hubble]

dulwichdreadlocks

What are you asking? i clearly explained why as you say "so many people are up in arms about it". Are you now asking me why it doesn't work? this is not just my view its the view of the entire scientific community (im not exaggerating). pls look back through the thread, at my posts for links . This is really basic stuff ask your G.P. for his honest medical opinion.

or just google.... "why homeopathy does not work" don't take my word for it.

LRon