Will you / Should we vote on Thursday?

[Brendan]

What makes people sceptical is the fact that the % of Etonian types believe firmly in the fact that their ?good education? is a privilege which should remain reserved for their social class in order to further entrench the privilege of their social class.

I cross their paths often enough in my professional life to know how true this is.

Unless the Tory party can show that they have the benefit of all in society on their agenda and not just the interest of a select few lots of normal people will remain justifiably sceptical no matter how sensible their policies seem.

[Brendan]

Keef Wrote:

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> Whether you agree with it or not MM, Ted Max makes

> a good point, in fact, it's THE point. The problem

> is that people basically have the realistic choice

> of one or the other,

Why? If people just refuse to support either of these showers of cunts new organisations, that need the support of and are therefore accountable to the voting public, will arise.

[Keef]

They are committed to reducing centralisation, target setting and unnecessary bureaucracy - all of which would help teachers, social workers and nurses. I know most about healthcare and next about education - but expect social workers would benefit from this simplification and loss of target setting culture.

I am not a person who will "never" vote tory, because of what they did years ago (my wife is), I won't vote for them now, because I don't trust them. However, I think they will be in power soon enough, and if they do what they say they will do (which is my problem, I don't think they will), then I may well vote to keep them in in the future.

Being from a social care background, and having a wife who taught, and was disgusted at the current system, I strongly believe that changes are required, and that "reducing unnecessary bureaucracy" would make people feel that it was worth training to do these jobs again. People go in to all of these jobs, because they want to help in some way, and I have seen so many good people walk away because they have become pen pushers. I blame Blair's Labour for that.

[Keef]

Why? If people just refuse to support either of these showers of @#$%& new organisations, that need the support of and are therefore accountable to the voting public, will arise.

Yeah, but it's not going to happen. I don't vote for either of the big 2, and never have, but people believe that not doing so is a wasted vote. Or they will vote for one simply because they can't stand the thought of the other. Lib Dems have been growing, but are still a way away.

Plus, I look at the Lib Dems as a bit slimey these days, and I used to vote for them.

[Brendan]

I know what you mean keef but if we carry on thinking that it's never going to happen it never will. People believe there is no alternative because people have just always believed that there is no alternative.

AAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!!! tends to be my view.

Followed by disillusionment and the contemplation of ideas like,

Democracy is wasted on humanity.

[Ted Max]

Humanity is wasted on humanity.

Apart from me. I am wasted on a couple of dry sherries.

[Windom]

Er.... the Tories against centralisation? They were the ones that dismembered Local Government and initiated the Internal market in the NHS greatly increasing the bureacratic load.

True Labor have continued to whiteant the founding principles of the NHS as well as the slavish devotion of the City that have lead us to the current shitstorm, same polices by both parties in my book, for which the only effective remedy is PR. Even if just to get away from the stale 'Etonians vs Union hacks' clubhouse mentality, neither groups can be said to have their finger on the pulse of what reality is like for many people.

PR of course taking many forms, to my mind the most effective is the Mixed Member variety, whereby there are both electorate MPs and List MPs thus accurately reflecting the voting intentions of the entire populace.

[Marmora Man]

Current Conservative policies are not this of '79 to '97 rewritten but a new template. To criticize today's Conservative party on the basis of that period does not make sense.

[bigbadwolf]

Sorry to butt in guys but do you lot disclose your vote to firm friends or loved ones? I don't.

[Brendan]

I have no problem with disclosing my vote but having said that I will never ask someone directly who they vote for. Firstly because I think it?s rude and secondly because it?s none of my business.

[Brendan]

Brenda those both sound like the same reason to me.

[Windom]

Really? it strikes me as a very peculiarly English thing, in the States, Aus, NZ, actually pretty much everywhere I've been people are pretty up front with it.

[bigbadwolf]

Ever heard of the famous British reserve Windom?

[Brendan]

Didn?t the bankers spend all of that years ago?

[bigbadwolf]

Ha ha, that was good Brendan.

[louisiana]

dc Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Marmora Man Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ditto for education

>

> Again - spot on.

>

> My post from last year:

> Here's a like-for-like GCSE comparison 1995 to

> 2007 (remember these have a comprehensive intake):

>

>

> Dulwich High School for Boys (previously William

> Penn)

> 1995 11% of pupils attained 5 A* to C

> Now The Charter School

> 2007 61% of pupils attained 5 A* to C

>

> Kingsdale

> 1995 6% of pupils attained 5 A* to C

> 2007 59% of pupils attained 5 A* to C

>

> All that money on the NHS and Education wasted and

> nothing has improved at all since 1997 - certainly

> not MM's rather selective memory at any rate.

I'd be more concerned about levels of functional numeracy and literacy than about scores in some constantly changing examination that really mean very little. And those figures don't look so good.

[louisiana]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Keef Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Whether you agree with it or not MM, Ted Max

> makes

> > a good point, in fact, it's THE point. The

> problem

> > is that people basically have the realistic

> choice

> > of one or the other,

The problem is that people *believe* that is the choice.

[Windom]

ah yes the famed english reserve, which also applies to not discussing what people earn thus making it pitifully easy for people to be shafted in employment negotiations.

makes a mockery of equal pay for equal work.

Reminds me of either a smallish bank or insurance company in the early 90's, whose name eludes me, for some reason employees started chatting about it at lunch one day with the end result that the entire staff at the head office downed tools, well.. pens, and walked out. Nice.

[bigbadwolf]

Looks like you've settled in nicely Windom. Welcome to the club.

[Keef]

I have no problem telling people who I've voted for, and like Brendan, I don't tend to ask people, unless very good friends.

[bigbadwolf]

I neither ask nor tell. To do so just wouldn't be British.

[Windom]

Why thank you BBW

good to be here