Police use Tasers

[paragon]

Apologies for the idiot one that was unfair. Stand by narrow-minded and backward. I didn't call you a bully and a coward, I said if you did what they did that is what I call you.

To re-engage debate; Do you really think that assaulting members of the public is a sensible method for sorting out public order issues? Do you think that the training at Hendon (I think it is there) should be "give em a couple of digs and hopefully that will quell the situation and restore order"

Do you not think that the police should arrest them and let rule of law prevail. It could be the person has mental health problems and require genuine help. It may be they are a repeat offender and require jail time. There are any number of potential outcomes which can't be decided by a police officer dispatching violence with no potential comeback. This is only an issue because people have mobile phones with camera's on these days.

EDIT to say;

I mean this is only in the media because of the camera phone, it would be an issue whether there was evidence against the police or not

[HonaloochieB]

Ah, so it was apropos of something after all.

[jimmy two times]

I think the Police were trying to arrest him, and he was resisting arrest. Therefore they took measures to ensure he was subdued whilst they carried out their duties. I think experienced coppers will generally know the difference between someone with mental health problems and someone who's drunk. I bet the Police are seriously provoked time and again by people they try to nick and by and large they don't bite.

[woofmarkthedog]

Jimmy 2 shoes

Please, are you, or were you, or do you want to be, now or in the past a policeman/woman ? or an employee or married to or in a relationship/related to past or present with someone from the met or any other police forces ......by the way?

Simple yes or no will do.

W**F

[jimmy two times]

Quite the opposite.

[paragon]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> I think the Police were trying to arrest him, and

> he was resisting arrest. Therefore they took

> measures to ensure he was subdued whilst they

> carried out their duties. I think experienced

> coppers will generally know the difference between

> someone with mental health problems and someone

> who's drunk. I bet the Police are seriously

> provoked time and again by people they try to nick

> and by and large they don't bite.

I agree that they are provoked time and time again, and they are paid and trained to not bite. I agree that it must be a difficult job, especially in the big cities. If there had been one copper on his own, scared with a mob growing around him then the action would have been more understanderble.

The question is, were the measures they choose to use appropriate for this situation. I think they were heavy handed and over zealous and should be called to account if they have broken the law. You think that police should be able to assault members of the public whilst they are on the floor with four people stood over them.

It would seem your view is that violence is an appropriate tool to sort issues out, which thankfully is not a widely method in this country for delivering justice.

[jimmy two times]

I don't think the Police should be able to assault members of the public full stop. However, if said member of the public becomes extremely violent, possibly high on drugs, has already badly assaulted a policeman and is resisting arrest and posing a significant threat then the Police have the power to use force to subdue and arrest this individual, whatever shape this force may take. This person has then crossed the line between being a 'member of the public' and has become a violent offender. I'd imagine any show of force by the Police to the ordinary bystander can look shocking. But it's necessary.

[HellNoHellYeah]

I thought these fascist corrupt scum (the po-po) used real guns and kill innocent people just because they can? A perk of being a police "officer" perhaps - you do the job, you get the evil thrill of killing another human being just because you can get away with it.

[jimmy two times]

May I ask what dealings have you had with the Police for you to have formed the opinion of them as 'fascist corrupt scum' ?

[Santerme]

Reasonable force is the measure used in law, if inappropriate force is used then the Police are as guilty of assault as a member of the public.

Whether this incident warrants charges being bought against the officers concerned is a matter for the IPCC and the CPS surely.

I think this case is borderline assault but I do not have to make that judgement at the end of the day.

[Santerme]

HellNoHellYeah Wrote:

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> I thought these fascist corrupt scum (the po-po)

> used real guns and kill innocent people just

> because they can? A perk of being a police

> "officer" perhaps - you do the job, you get the

> evil thrill of killing another human being just

> because you can get away with it.

Satire?

[HellNoHellYeah]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> May I ask what dealings have you had with the

> Police for you to have formed the opinion of them

> as 'fascist corrupt scum' ?

Friend of mine recently beaten up by them so severely that he needed to be hospitalized for a few days. Case of mistaken identity. The pigs thought he was this bloke who'd been burgling local homes. In fact my friend has no criminal record and is an accountant. Needless to say he is a black male.

As for police corruption and racism in general, it's hardly a secret is it?

[jimmy two times]

Why was he beaten up?

[HellNoHellYeah]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Why was he beaten up?

As well as his London flat he owns a second home in the country. He had both sets of keys on him. The pigs took the first keys and let themselves into his flat for some kind of PACE Act search. They demanded to know what the second set of keys were for and he refused to tell them. That's when he got beaten up. Eventually they beat the information out of him and sent the local force round to his second home where the door was kicked in and the place searched. Their searches yielded.....nothing. They were expecting to find stolen goods. They did also question my friend as to WHY he had an expensive plasma TV and designer suits in his flat.

[jimmy two times]

So may I ask has he put in a complaint aginst the police? If he was hospitalized he certainly has serious grounds. What injuries did he sustain?

[paragon]

I'm suprised a few digs didn't sort the situation out.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Its isnt the Police's job to punish. It is there job to educate, dissuade, prevent and to catch. The CPS, Judges and ultimately, we as Jury members, punish.

Having got him on the floor, the additional tazering and the beating were revenge not a necessity. If he was guilty of GBH he is now a victim of GBH and on film, and will no doubt use that to full advantage.

The Police are naturally conservative and authoritarian, thats their job. This can easily became oppressive and dictatorial if they are allowed to step outside the law themselves.

[DaveR]

The guidelines on taser use say only when threatened with violence, which is different from 'on the floor but still struggling' The fact that there has been an alleged assault on a police officer before he was put on the floor is not really relevant. It does leave the police in a difficult position - what to do with someone who is not compliant but is not actually violent (or capable of being violent, because already restrained). I don't think tasering is the right answer, but it's not the worst case - the 'victim' was definitely still puting up a decent fight.

What it does show is that you cannot effectively control the way that tools given to the police are used - it has been the same story with long batons/extendable batons, CS spray etc. when introduced it is said that they are necessary to deal with knife-wielding crims, but pretty soon they are part of the everyday kit and fair game for use on anybody.

Jimmy, don't you think there's an analogy here with your cyclist/motorist thread? The fact that the police are given legal powers and legally held weapons makes it more important that they are able to keep cool, and don't give someone a dig because they are 'probably a bully'?

[jimmy two times]

Looking at the film I'm not sure that the copper was punching the man in the face. He may well have been punching him in the shoulder to try to break the man's grip. Michael you say the force used was not necessary, but not being present whilst the situation escalated how can you so confidently make that sort of judgement?

[bigbadwolf]

Did anyone else find it a bit unnecessary for the police who was responsible for zapping the offender to shout "tazer tazer tazer" every time he turned on the juice.

I was also incredibly dissapointed that when they shocked the offender his hair didn't stand on end.

This is how you tazer someone.

[woofmarkthedog]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Quite the opposite. I'm an ex con.

........................................................

Which was the last question I omitted prior to posting.

W**F

[jimmy two times]

Doesn't mean I don't respect them though. They've got a job to do and I never had any real problems with them.

[jimmy two times]

apart from getting caught that is.

[Michael Palaeologus]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Looking at the film I'm not sure that the copper

> was punching the man in the face. He may well have

> been punching him in the shoulder to try to break

> the man's grip. Michael you say the force used was

> not necessary, but not being present whilst the

> situation escalated how can you so confidently

> make that sort of judgement?

I watched the video recording carefully.

He was being punched in the face. There were what, at least 4 coppers on the scene? Maybe more. Thats at least one large copper per limb. It just a bit of good old fashioned SPG style beating because they could and he "asked for it".

Constable Savage

[Huguenot]

Assuming the police had grounds for concern, why would HNHY's chum not explain why he had two sets of keys on him?

I can understand why it would appear suspicious, and I'd probably try and quell concern by explaining the situation?