Labour Leadership

[Jah Lush]

Opinions are like arseholes. Everybody's got one. "La la la la la la."

[red devil]

My vote goes to...Drooper!

 

[JohnL]

???? Wrote:

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> THE CRITICISM HAS COME FROM HIS RIVALS FOR THE

> LEADERSHIP FFS. Not the corporate Tory media

> Zzzzzzzz whole world is going mad everyone, even

> people I see as normal are trotting out this

> narrative. Thank god in reality Social Media

> doesn't reflect actual reality, normal people are

> far cleverer than the twtish memes of social

> media.

One day we'll get to the stage where social media

leads reality ... and it's not far away :)

What I notice is that people using following and blocking

set up their twitter feed to show what they want it to

show.

[Blah Blah]

It's not jsut social media, it's the comments pages of press articles too. You only have to look in those to see how removed from reality a lot of people now are.

[uncleglen]

Not everyone has an arsehole btw

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/007379.htm

[Sue]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> I wonder if the women only carriage idea was more

> to do with creating an environment that some women

> would feel safer travelling in, esp late at night?

> Whilst it's probably not a practical idea (which

> might explain it not being pursued), it's not a

> silly idea either when thought of in those terms.

> Someone somewhere considered there to be a need to

> think about addressing.

>

> Totally agree though on the hypocracy of who likes

> an idea!

I think it's a brilliant idea.

I'd use it :)

[bodsier]

???

I just hope the madness that has gripped the Labour Party and my labour chums doesn't ever EVEr get the rest of the country ever or we'll end up like Greece. Dull old centrist politics is driven by dull old economics because it's right - people who have actually been in power, see the receipts coming in and the bills going out have realised this since about 1977 that we need some fiscal discipline, including the dull old middle grounders of the labour leadership contest. Corybn comes jumping in like the pied piper of Hamlin with his fantasy, money tree economics and his inflexible dogma born in the student radicalism of the 60s and 79s I know you guys think it's principles - I reckon I could tell you Corybn's line an any matter because it would be paint by numbers what's the left wing line on this?) and any middle class, metropolitan under 40 is like "he's the messiah" . I am honestly scratching my head at your collective stupidity....

Seems not, and it's not a case of lefties talking to each other, Sky news?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ourkingdom/35-economists-back-corbyn's-policies-as-'sensible'

http://news.sky.com/story/1540216/corbyn-wins-backing-from-over-40-economists

[Blah Blah]

To even think we could become Greece shows how little you know about the Greek economy and why they have ended up in the mess they have.

[????]

Apologies to some of you that have seen this elsewhere but this, from The Spectator, sums up Corbymania to me...

It?s not about winning so much as it is about sending a message. Which is fine if that?s the sort of thing you like. But politics is actually about power and the consequence of choosing the guy who allows you to think you?re sticking it to the man is that, in the end, the man wins.

Good luck comrades.

[ratty]

Yawn. Is politics about power or about policies? Is it not true that someone prepared to call the Tories out for the bunch of coonts that they are might be able to help move policies away from the "blame the poor and make them suffer, be scared of Muslims and immigrants" shit that we have today into something fairer?

If that happens, regardless of who is in power, would that not look like success and something worth fighting for to people like me who are voting for or who have already voted for Jeremy Corbyn?

The thing people seem to lose sight of is it is not ideological hate the Tories politicos that is playing out, although for some people it is easy to blame it on this. It is more of a movement towards someone who will just take a fairer look at things and try to effect a shift in public opinion / media opinion.

The horse shit in the newspapers over the weekend I think proves how scared they are of Corbyn. The Osama comments and the Falklands comments. I mean you have to be a total fucktard to believe that don't you? The simple matter is that due to Osborne's cuts we could not afford to defend the Falklands anyway, so let's negotiate over them to make them safer? Is that not sensible? Is it tragic that Osama was killed, or tragic he did not get yo face the relatives of the thousands of victims he killed?

The right wing and centrist media are so scared of this man it is ridiculous. It is almost pathetic and would be laughable except that people seem to believe it.

Oh and by the way, putting "Comrades" at the end of your post makes you lose the argument immediately because it sort of dissipates any real thought away from your post and opinion, and places you in the playground.

[????]

Bunch of coonts reaaly puts you in the frame for intelligent debate hey ratty.....

[Blah Blah]

Spot on Ratty. I completely agree. Scaremongering at it's worst. And when Corbyn is leader as it certainly looks as though he will be, all the media hype will be shown for the nonsense it really is.

[aquarius moon]

ratty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yawn. Is politics about power or about policies?

> Is it not true that someone prepared to call the

> Tories out for the bunch of coonts that they are

> might be able to help move policies away from the

> "blame the poor and make them suffer, be scared of

> Muslims and immigrants" shit that we have today

> into something fairer?

>

> If that happens, regardless of who is in power,

> would that not look like success and something

> worth fighting for to people like me who are

> voting for or who have already voted for Jeremy

> Corbyn?

>

> The thing people seem to lose sight of is it is

> not ideological hate the Tories politicos that is

> playing out, although for some people it is easy

> to blame it on this. It is more of a movement

> towards someone who will just take a fairer look

> at things and try to effect a shift in public

> opinion / media opinion.

>

> The horse shit in the newspapers over the weekend

> I think proves how scared they are of Corbyn. The

> Osama comments and the Falklands comments. I mean

> you have to be a total fucktard to believe that

> don't you? The simple matter is that due to

> Osborne's cuts we could not afford to defend the

> Falklands anyway, so let's negotiate over them to

> make them safer? Is that not sensible? Is it

> tragic that Osama was killed, or tragic he did not

> get yo face the relatives of the thousands of

> victims he killed?

>

> The right wing and centrist media are so scared of

> this man it is ridiculous. It is almost pathetic

> and would be laughable except that people seem to

> believe it.

>

> Oh and by the way, putting "Comrades" at the end

> of your post makes you lose the argument

> immediately because it sort of dissipates any real

> thought away from your post and opinion, and

> places you in the playground.

*like*

[Jeremy]

I'm certainly not a supporter of his economic policies, but it's a bit tiresome that the media are up in arms every time he says something. It is just cheap sensationalism, and gets in the way of sensible/balanced discussion.

But you think the "right wing and centrist media" are afraid of him? The Labour party are the only ones who really seem afraid.

[Otta]

Has anyone here actually watched a hustings in it's entirity? I did last night (because the wife just received her ballot papers and is torn).

Corbyn doesn't come across as a loony or a naive student at all. He actually was head and shoulders above the rest in terms of communication and clear vision, as opposed to the usual soundbytey stuff. And with the exception of being very clear he'd want rid of trident (and making a pretty good case for it), he was the far left nutter we're being told he is.

Cooper impressive in that it's clear she's give Cameron absolute hell, but less impresive / clear about her vision.

Andy Burnham strikes a bit of a tragic figure. I really liked an awful lot of what he said, but like Milliband he just isn't a great communicator and comes across a bit arkward. Real shame, because he has depth, and I think he knows where he wants to go with the party.

Kendall, NO!!!

Actually, in all seriousness, she said some good things. I believe that she is passionate about inequality, particularly with the young. And I believe she finds a lot of tory policy repellant. But she'd definitely be tory lite, a lot of similar policies but with a dollop more compassion. Not enough for me.

[Otta]

???? Wrote:

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> Bunch of coonts reaaly puts you in the frame for

> intelligent debate hey ratty.....

Perhaps not, but the big difference is that ratty is talking about the government. You are patronising the plebs ;-)

[ratty]

Emotions get the better of me when my clients die on the streets because of the Tory cuts! Beg you pardon for that! Stand by the rest of it though!

[miga]

I get the impression that a few of the posters on here work on the front line in LAs, perhaps in a social work or housing. Laudable as that work is, I think it's still worth remembering anecdotal evidence is just that. On the other hand, given the balls up that Lewisham has made of the Excalibur estate redevelopment or that Southwark has made of E&C redevelopment, you could argue that the incompetence and corruption of Labour controlled LAs in our part of London is the cause of a large portion of housing issues, without looking to some "Tory coonts" arch narrative.

[Loz]

Owen Jones has just written a rather decent article on Corbyn: https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/my-honest-thoughts-on-the-corbyn-campaign-and-overcoming-formidable-obstacles-de81d4449884

Jones is a strange one: whenever he writes in the Guardian he comes over as a complete idiot. Whenever I've seen/read him outside of the Gruan he comes across as rather thoughtful.

[Blah Blah]

The E&C deveolpment was first put together under the liberal/ con coalition council (and some of those lib and con councillors involved were given jobs by Lendlease when they lost their seats!). And there are equal examples of poor council management from parties of all colours. The processes and legal constriants are the same for all of them. That is policy set by government. When you have a government and mayor who think selling off social housing to give way to corporate private development should be favoured over social homebuilding, that's what you get.

The evidence of those in the front line isn't anecdotal. There are real issues affecting millions. Three days ago, the DWP finally published the figures that the ICO ordered them to. Figures that Ian Duncan Smith stood up in parliament and said didn't exist (so a deliberate lie). 4000 people died within six weeks of being told they were fit to work by the governments work capability assessment. So these are people who had serious health conditions, not long from death, being incorrectly told they are not eligible for disibility benefits. I can not think of any other arena where the impact on so many people would not lead to a public enquiry!

As for IDS, he is a proven liar, from the fictitous educational section on his CV to consistently lying in the houses of parliament about figures and data - all things widely reported by the media at the time. I don't understand why he is still in the job. He's a narcissistic sociopath.

[bawdy-nan]

Loz Wrote:

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> Owen Jones has just written a rather decent

> article on Corbyn:

> https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/my-honest-thoughts

> -on-the-corbyn-campaign-and-overcoming-formidable-

> obstacles-de81d4449884

>

> Jones is a strange one: whenever he writes in the

> Guardian he comes over as a complete idiot.

> Whenever I've seen/read him outside of the Gruan

> he comes across as rather thoughtful.

Very interesting and a good taking on board of the Jon Crudas research; though a couple of eyebrow raising "4 legs good 2 legs better" moments in there too (touch of the Mandlesons maybe). Made me less wary of JC...

[miga]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The E&C deveolpment was first put together under

> the liberal/ con coalition council (and some of

> those lib and con councillors involved were given

> jobs by Lendlease when they lost their seats!).

> And there are equal examples of poor council

> management from parties of all colours. The

> processes and legal constriants are the same for

> all of them. That is policy set by government.

> When you have a government and mayor who think

> selling off social housing to give way to

> corporate private development should be favoured

> over social homebuilding, that's what you get.

Fair enough I got the timeline wrong on the original Heygate decision, but yes, the point is that poor management and corruption is rife in LAs, and yes, it happens across all political parties (e.g. the debacle of Excalibur). Let's also not forget that the Labour government 1997-2010 didn't shun right to buy, buy to let etc. but actively encouraged it. But it's convenient to bang on about Boris and Cameron, as if they were at the heart of the historical factors that brought about the current state of affairs, rather than just the latest administrators on a continuum.

When someone says "I see people dying everyday because of Cameron", while it's a worrying observation, it *is* anecdotal. It can explain an attitude, but of course you're more likely to see destitute people if you work in allocating housing for a council, or people who OD if you work with addicts.

And also, I'm glad you brought up the 4000 dead within 6 months thing. I think it's an example of sloppy, sensationalist journalism, the way that Indy, Guardian and others have reported on this. But, no-one really yet knows whether that number is fine, or horrendously bad, because there's a lot missing, still. http://storify.com/bengoldacre/how-dwp-has-confused-everyone-by-releasing-the-rig, just for a start but there is a world of articles out there explaining that we can't tell yet whether IDS really kills sick people for fun.

I mean....murdering Tory scum!!!

[Jeremy]

The "x-thousand dead after being declared fit to work" thing is a great example of awful reporting. The kind of thing trotted out by people who have no grasp of statistics. For instance - how many claimants in total were declared fit to work in the same period? What would be the expected mortality rate for people across that age group?

You can't claim there's correlation unless you have all the relevant data.

[miga]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> The E&C deveolpment was first put together under

> the liberal/ con coalition council (and some of

> those lib and con councillors involved were given

> jobs by Lendlease when they lost their seats!).

And actually - the second part of that is completely wrong - when you look at this list of shame http://betterelephant.org/blog/2013/04/09/report-uncovers-corruption-at-the-elephant/ - there are no Tories at all, just Labour councillors and non-political public servants who jumped ship to LendLease after Heygate...I mean...Tories eat babies.

[JohnL]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> The "x-thousand dead after being declared fit to

> work" thing is a great example of awful reporting.

> The kind of thing trotted out by people who have

> no grasp of statistics. For instance - how many

> claimants in total were declared fit to work in

> the same period? What would be the expected

> mortality rate for people across that age group?

>

> You can't claim there's correlation unless you

> have all the relevant data.

Is anyone actually analysing it properly ?

Could be correlation or connection from what was said IMHO.