Naming and shaming local businesses... Right or Wrong...

[TheArtfulDogger]

Whilst the concept of naming and shaming forumites isn't something I agree with, I do believe that some people come on here and act like 12 year olds in a playground and bully local businesses ... Especially those ones they don't agree with ( thanks Blah Blah for the phrase there from the original thread)

I wonder if people realise the financial and emotional harm they can cause a business and its owner when they hide behind a pseudo name and whine about something that has happened. For whatever reason something may have gone wrong or occurred and so often rather than talk to the business in question to let them know there was a problem, which the business could fix if they know about it, the first the business may know about the issue the customer had is when there is a post on here or trip advisor...

In my mind that is a form of cowardly bullying, agreed there are times when the business is informed and doesn't act but again we may just see one side of the story being posted with the business often too scared of a social media kickback if they try and post their side.

A couple of friends of mine who own separate local businesses said in independent conversations about comments against their business on here that they preferred to let people rant about it and for the discussion to die a natural death rather than stick their heads up, post a response and get shot at by people who weren't involved in the problem.

There was a great photo I saw recently that said " if you have a problem, tell us and not trip advisor as they can't help you"

Maybe we should talk more with each other rather than hiding behind a forum or review site and cyber bullying people or businesses we don't agree with or have a problem with. Maybe everyone will learn and grow from the experience!

Right that's my tuppence worth and now off to work on the delightful modern routemaster to earn a crust

Note this has been reposted as it was deleted when a whole thread on naming and shaming started by someone else was deleted by the administrators...

[JohnL]

Some would say it's the free market (the one that's red in

tooth and claw).

There'll still be winners and losers whatever.

I'd say there are ways to gain a competitive advantage in

customer management however - asking them how the experience

was, approachable staff, professional attitude.

[miga]

I'm sure there are some posters with psychopathic tendencies who'll "bully" a business, but more often than not, it's a genuine bad experience that will lead to someone posting, surely?

I actually find the opposite is the problem, people (including myself) don't post their negative experiences of businesses often enough. We've had a number of tradespeople that we found through here who've been so-so at best, whose reviews were glowing.

The one time I posted a negative comment about a local business on here (following a couple of failed attempts to get the issue dealt with directly) - my problem was sorted promptly and courteously.

[Jeremy]

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A couple of friends of mine who own separate local

> businesses said in independent conversations about

> comments against their business on here that they

> preferred to let people rant about it and for the

> discussion to die a natural death rather than

> stick their heads up, post a response and get shot

> at by people who weren't involved in the problem.

I've heard a similar thing... a local restauranteur told me that when he speaks with new local business owners, he advises them to steer clear, because it's full of nutters, moaners, and self-proclaimed experts. No good can come from getting involved.

However - I think if a business provide a quality product/service, and reasonable value for money then they shouldn't need to worry about a few people moaning or talking shite. If you've got it right then the praise should outweigh the negativity.

[anoTher]

I'd agree with pretty much everything you say up to a point, and am also aware you are referring to my post about the Herne Tavern this weekend. As someone who runs a small business I indeed know that success is built upon reputation, customer service and quality of product/service offered.

However when one has attempted to speak to the business owner and calmly voice one's dissatifaction and are then aggressively shouted down and told rudely that you are wrong it leaves a particularly bitter taste in the mouth. And you may find yourself posting on this forum to warn others not to fall in to the same trap. For the record I've lived in East Dulwich for 17 years and never felt strongly enough to post on this forum about anything else, it just so happened that this was a particularly unpleasant experience that I, my friends and our children endured.

[giggirl]

Good post Dodger. It's very tricky. Some good reviews and recommendations are fake. Some complaints are unreasonable. Some complaints are valid. I know of at least two local businesses that have been "blackmailed" with the threat of a bad review. The customer is not always right and some folk on the EDF are plain nasty. Totally agree that people should address the problem with the business before posting.

[Jah Lush]

Nicely summed up Giggirl.

[edcam]

It seems to me that on the whole, the unreasonable are fairly swiftly weeded out on here. I'm thinking of one regular poster who posts negatively about businesses he hasn't even tried. I also usually find that if someone gives a poor review, if there are satisfied customers, they will weigh in.

[KidKruger]

Either way, coming on EDF as a first resort is IMO lazy, aggressive, vengeful and counterproductive.

So what if you wanted a heart shape in your cappucino froth, but got a clover, talk to the business about it - not an internet forum !

[Azira]

I'm not sure I entirely agree. I think people should make an effort to be objective and avoid histrionics, but what's the point in just allowing positive feedback?

There's also a bit of a tendency here to shout down people who disagree with a positive majority view and accuse the person in question of not being genuine. Just because 9 out of 10 people found a business fantastic, it doesn't mean the 10th person didn't legitimately have a different experience. Indeed, I've been dissuaded from posting a negative review of a tradesperson who is extremely well reviewed on here, partly because I found his behaviour intimidating (including his manner of insistence that I say good things about him on the forum) and partly because I've seen tonnes of other people told they are lying if they don't follow the herd.

I'm sure it's upsetting for businesses to receive critical feedback, but it's also upsetting to feel you've been treated poorly by someone you've paid money to. And whilst sometimes people use the netrant as the first resort of grievance, sometimes there may be good reason for not complaining to someone's face. In my case, as he'd shouted at me when I (politely and calmly) asked why he taken certain action, I wasn't much inclined to follow up with him further.

Allowing positive and negative feedback at least allows the reader to make up their own mind as to how to weight the critic's views.

[TheArtfulDogger]

Hi Azira

Your point is well made, and no one is saying that bad reviews shouldn't be posted, however the point is that a business should be informed of the problem or issue directly and allowed to try and resolve it first rather then finding out there was a problem for the first time when they see a negative online review.

Sadly I think that Tim Berners-Lee has a lot to answer for in terms of people not talking in person anymore and we have lost the art of complaining directly when there is a problem.

[johnie]

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------

>

> Sadly I think that Tim Berners-Lee has a lot to

> answer for in terms of people not talking in

> person anymore and we have lost the art of

> complaining directly when there is a problem.

It would be best if you brought this up with Mr Berners-Lee directly rather than on this public forum :)

[Azira]

Heh @Johnie.

Artful, my point was also that it isn't always appropriate to communicate it directly with the business if there was hostility from the business owner. In that case, I think it's perfectly appropriate to provide a negative review without further recourse to the business.

[DaveR]

"however the point is that a business should be informed of the problem or issue directly and allowed to try and resolve it first rather then finding out there was a problem for the first time when they see a negative online review."

Obviously a business would prefer it like this, and understandably so, but that's not sufficient reason to criticise people who choose to post honest but negative reviews. The business has the ability to respond directly or indirectly, or to proceed on the basis that they think the criticism is unjustified, or to rely on positive reviews and/or existign customer loyalty etc.

"Sadly I think that Tim Berners-Lee has a lot to answer for in terms of people not talking in person anymore and we have lost the art of complaining directly when there is a problem"

The problem before was that people didn't complain at all - in Britain, at least. And hence we got the kind of crap service we deserved.

Talk of 'bullying' and 'shaming' is inappropriate IMHO. I think there's very little evidence of systematic abuse of the forum, and lots of evidence of a very useful body of information.

[DulwichFox]

edcam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It seems to me that on the whole, the unreasonable

> are fairly swiftly weeded out on here.

I'm thinking of one regular poster who posts negatively about businesses he hasn't even tried.

> I also usually find that if someone gives a poor

> review, if there are satisfied customers, they

> will weigh in.

Is that a fact.. I would be interested to know who that poster might be. ?

And which businesses he / she might of been negative about without having been to.

and how you know that this regular poster has never been to any of these places..

I myself go to many places unannounced and no one would ever know I had been there.

Any problems I have with a restaurant or business I will deal with at the time and

not whinge about it on here.

There are however other issues other than how good the food is to any establishment that need to be addressed.

If for example any restaurant were to refuse to serve anyone on the grounds of Race, Disability or Homophobia

I would not darken their doors and would voice my disapproval with them and on here.

DulwichFox