Charter School East - consultations

[matthew123]

I read the Guardian story some time ago so surprised that they have not been consistent in their reasons for their new school - it seems to me that the RPH argument on it not being social segregation can now be dismissed and should be revisited. As a minimum both schools must have same policy. Anyway, "safe walking route" is of course an interpretation, some people might say the unsafe walkway is actually a safer walk than a walk where trucks and buses are hurtling towards you at high speed.

[Asset]

What is the 'unsafe walkway'?

[James Barber]

Hi localass,

I think the need for teachers to drive is a personal thing. I know teachers that don't bring marking home. They stay at their school and finish all their work and then go home. I know another who cycles with two large panniers some distance.

This new school will have a car park. What we're discussing is the size of it. That the charter school very nearby thinks it knows how many car parking spaces it will need.

Hi ED_moots,

This was an issue from some years ago and is resolved.

hi Asset,

it was a footway between two estates that the school felt unsafe. Local Police and residents felt safe. Matter resolved some years ago.

[Curmudgeon]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi localass,

> I think the need for teachers to drive is a

> personal thing. I know teachers that don't bring

> marking home. They stay at their school and finish

> all their work and then go home. I know another

> who cycles with two large panniers some distance.

>

> This new school will have a car park. What we're

> discussing is the size of it. That the charter

> school very nearby thinks it knows how many car

> parking spaces it will need.

>

> Hi ED_moots,

> This was an issue from some years ago and is

> resolved.

>

> hi Asset,

> it was a footway between two estates that the

> school felt unsafe. Local Police and residents

> felt safe. Matter resolved some years ago.

Hi James

I think you're wrong in your first paragraph.

And I think the Charter management are probably fully aware of the issues they will face with parking, deliveries, access and staffing

[edhistory]

Who owns this chunk of land?

John K

[ED_moots]

James Barber Wrote:

----------------------------------------

>

> Hi ED_moots,

> This was an issue from some years ago and is

> resolved

The admissions issue? I am glad although it remains confusing.

Regarding the CPZ around RPH. Does anyone know how it came about? Did the residents want it or the school? Is it a trial or permanent?

Just my opinion but the introduction of a CPZ indicates some friction between residents and the school(s) with respect to staff parking and possibly inadequate provision by Charter RPH - a smaller school than the one proposed in ED.

It would be interesting to hear the experiences of the residents around Charter RPH.

[James Barber]

Hi ED_moots,

This was resident led. The council log all complaints made to it about not being able to park. If it gets enough it then investigates it. This investigation led to this CPZ being proposed, consulted upon and agree. it takes effect in late January 2016.

I wouldn't say friction. Frustration generally with parking. The parking stressed is relieved during school holidays. But that could be families going away, fewer commuters resulting rather than no school staff.

To understand experiences you could look at the CPZ consultation feedback which gives a flavour of how they feel.

And I should point out that when the CPZ happens double yellow lines for 10m in from all junction corners are going to be implemented. I think 10m although highway code inspired is excessive especially in 20mph area. Any reduction in parking could be swallowed up by this which would be crazy.

[LondonMix]

The catchment is likely to be much larger than half a mile. The current Charter School's catchment is typically 1 mile and this school will be significantly larger. Either way, most pupils should be able to commute via public transport but suggesting the catchment will be half a mile is a but alarmist / unrealistic.

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James Barber Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > They said 90-95% of current Charter pupils

> walking

> > or public transport. Risk at new school of

> 5-10%

> > of pupils being driven/collected which would

> > September 2016 equate to 6-12 cars am and pm

> > expanding to ultimately possible 120 vehicles

> when

> > school finished. So initially no problem.

> Bigger

> > risk I suspect is staff driving to/from school.

> > Has to be said it appears the nearest private

> > schools have much higher proportion of pupils

> > being driven to/from schools. So any work to

> > reduce the Charter East Dulwich pupils being

> > driven needs to be applied in the private

> school

> > direction as well.

>

> Well, the private schools' intake is entirely

> different from what will be the Charter School's

> as they take from far and wide. Apart from pupils

> with disability issues, there's no excuse for any

> Charter pupil not walking, cycling or hopping on a

> bus given that no pupil is likely to live more

> than half a mile away.

>

> As you suggest, it's the staff who will be the

> issue when it comes to car use and particularly

> parking.

>

> Incidentally, pdfs of the full information panels

> from the consultation are now available here:

> http://www.chartereastdulwich.org.uk/_site/data/fi

> les/users/2/68364016F0E646B3810036D83AC73AC4.pdf

[LondonMix]

There is no reason the schools have to have the same admission policy. Admission policy with school federations are often different. As long as they aren't in breach of the guidelines for fair admission its fine.

matthew123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I read the Guardian story some time ago so

> surprised that they have not been consistent in

> their reasons for their new school - it seems to

> me that the RPH argument on it not being social

> segregation can now be dismissed and should be

> revisited. As a minimum both schools must have

> same policy. Anyway, "safe walking route" is of

> course an interpretation, some people might say

> the unsafe walkway is actually a safer walk than a

> walk where trucks and buses are hurtling towards

> you at high speed.

[TCSED]

Please see updates related to The Charter School East Dulwich.

Our blog is now live - see link on our website. http://www.chartereastdulwich.org.uk/blog/Default.asp?pid=62&nid=3&storyid=4

If you haven't already heard - exciting news about our site. Dulwich Hospital is secured for the new school. See attached press release below.

Please follow us on twitter @chartereast.https://twitter.com/CharterEast

[BrandNewGuy]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The catchment is likely to be much larger than

> half a mile. The current Charter School's

> catchment is typically 1 mile and this school will

> be significantly larger. Either way, most pupils

> should be able to commute via public transport but

> suggesting the catchment will be half a mile is a

> but alarmist / unrealistic.

It was a rough guess, to be honest, so don't worry yourself. Anyway, a mile is twenty minutes walk. Piece of cake for most 11-18 year olds.

[LondonMix]

I'm not worried but given how panicked people get about catchment sizes it was worth correcting that statement.

I agree that most kids can walk and even if the catchment is closer 1.5-2 miles, its easily accessible by public transportation.

[ED_moots]

Thanks for joining the discussion TCSED.

Although unofficial you'll get a good measure of local feeling/issues/paranoia.

I hope you may also answer some questions as answers become available.

Such as... What proportion of the student population at Charter RPH walk to school? Is it 100%.

I haven't recently asked an 11-18 year old to walk 2 miles a day and I'm sure most are physically capable but I bet its not an easy sell...

[matthew123]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not worried but given how panicked people get

> about catchment sizes it was worth correcting that

> statement.

>

> I agree that most kids can walk and even if the

> catchment is closer 1.5-2 miles, its easily

> accessible by public transportation.

In a densely populated area it's not about how far one is able to walk, it's about how many pupils live within a certain radius of the main school gate, on Jarvis road, before it reaches capacity. It maybe that 1600 pupils live within 1000 metres (that would be the catchment area).

[LondonMix]

Matthew123, I know how catchments work.

My point was simply that the catchment is unlikely to be half a mile given the size of the school and based on the size of the catchment of other schools in this general area.

The geographic distribution of secondary school age pupils would need to be exceptionally and almost unbelievably high near the hospital for the catchment to be that small. The school would have the smallest catchment (by almost 50%) of any other secondary school in all of Southwark despite being much larger than other well performing oversubscribed schools.

[matthew123]

TCSED - there is no indication on your plan as to number of carparking space it may accommodate. I understand there is no magic number but I think it's important for the plan to show maximum number of carparking spaces it will be able to accommodate. There is no point finding out after the plan has been implemented that it will only accommodate 30 cars and CPZ has been enforced in surrounding residential area.

[Curmudgeon]

ED_moots Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks for joining the discussion TCSED.

>

> Although unofficial you'll get a good measure of

> local feeling/issues/paranoia.

>

> I hope you may also answer some questions as

> answers become available.

>

> Such as... What proportion of the student

> population at Charter RPH walk to school? Is it

> 100%.

>

> I haven't recently asked an 11-18 year old to walk

> 2 miles a day and I'm sure most are physically

> capable but I bet its not an easy sell...

EDF is not representative of local feeling IMHO and I think any school / board would and should only use a forum to provide information

[minder]

Just to say I live within the CPZ planned to come into effect next January in North Dulwich (although I pm'd James Barber today as he seems certain it will but residents have not been informed of the decision) but most people living in the area can't wait. We went to see the plans during the Summer and had to make comments and vote on papers given to every household in the area.

A while ago I wouldn't have wanted a CPZ but since the introduction of a CPZ over the road in Denmark Hill by Lambeth, it just pushed all the cars looking to park somewhere over to the Denmark Hill Estate and roads like Red Post Hill, Sunray Avenue, Casino Avenue, Elmwood Road, Beckwith Road, which are a few minutes walk from The Charter.

I don't know if teachers from The Charter park on these streets as they have a small car park at the school. We find it's mainly people coming in (sometimes from miles away) to use Denmark Hill, Herne Hill and North Dulwich train stations and the P4/42 bus routes. There's lots of workers from King's parking here and then jumping on the 42. You see them with their lanyards round their necks, parking and rushing for the bus. Also people parking and then jumping on the P4 to get to Brixton tube.

There's even cyclists who pull up in their cars and get their bikes out the back and cycle off.

There's no let up really, only at weekends when it's safe to move your car! School holidays don't seem to make any difference for ease of parking as said it's not mostly teachers parking.

When we went to see the plans, it did seem that it would push the problem somewhere else.

[PK36]

A temporary site has been acquired for the school in Southampton Way, Camberwell. More info here: http://www.chartereastdulwich.org.uk/page/?title=Our+temporary+school+site+at+Southampton+Way&pid=120

[Mick Mac]

ok - so for the first two years any successful applicants to this school will need to travel to Camberwell...

"Responding to overwhelming community support for the new school, the Education Funding Agency (EFA), working closely with Southwark Council, has secured the temporary use of the former Lewisham and Southwark College campus on Southampton Way, SE5 7EW, close to the redeveloped areas of Burgess Park.

A significant portion of the Silverthorne Building and grounds on the Southampton Way site will serve as TCSED's temporary home until September 2018, when the school will move into its permanent home on the site currently occupied by the Dulwich Community Hospital."

[LondonMix]

Interesting. For the first two years, will admission be based on distance from the permanent site or the temporary site?

[Angelina]

temporary site entrance - this was confirmed to me at the meeting earlier this autumn

[Mick Mac]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Interesting. For the first two years, will

> admission be based on distance from the permanent

> site or the temporary site?

However school choices for 2016 have just been submitted based upon going to a new school in ED.

[katgod]

Really? So all the kids in Camberwell go there and then their siblings get priority later on and so even fewer local East Duwich children get to go once back on hospital site? Surely that cannot be right?

[HannahSE23]

From an email I received from charter... "Our occupation of the temporary site has no impact on our admissions criteria" so admissions will stay the same. The children are likely to be bussed from the hospital site to the temporary site morning and evening. Not ideal but better than them making their own way there I guess.