Consultation on Bellenden Road - Holly Grove - Lyndhurst Way Cycling and Walking Improvements

[mikeb]

@RahRahRah - dead right. I mostly use a fairly rubbish bike around town but I wouldn't leave it at Brixton all day without bolting the front wheel to the frame and removing the saddle. Ditto for Peckham Rye station and Nunhead.

I cycle through the one-way system most days and have done for years - honestly, I think it's fine and is one of the few road schemes locally that actually works i.e. smooth flow of road, cycle and foot traffic. For walking, the only problem is the lack of pavement on RHS of Bellenden heading north after Holly Grove, though it's not onerous to cross the road.

There are many worse areas locally for cycling e.g. Bellenden Rd between Maxted & Choumert, East Dulwich Grove junction with Lordship Lane, Turney Rd onto Dulwich Village, Herne Hill junction, Peckham Road / Kelly Road, the whole of the South Circular.

The only problems I see in this gyratory are:

(a) the slippery manhole cover as you turn off Bellenden onto Chadwick which is a real hazard

(b) sadly, many cyclists deciding they can't be bothered to go around the one-way system and heading the wrong way up Bellenden between Highshore and Chadwick roads.

[Lazero]

rfolgado Wrote:

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> There will always be people against any

> change, and it's impossible to please everyone or

> come up with the perfect solution for everything.

Completely agree! And I support these changes. If the Southwark Spine (link below) is every going to become a reality, they have to start improving sections of it. I agree there are more pressing needs, like the crossing from Kelly avenue coming south, commercial way, Burgess park and even more up to the north, I'm glad they are starting to work on parts of it.

I cycle through here almost every day (and drive through 2-3 days a week) and agree that it isn't the worst set of roads I cycle through. But I can see how these changes would benefit some people. I regularly see other cyclists (going much slower) who, for example, don't confidently move to the right early enough on Holly grove. Some drivers then aren't patient enough to let them back in. The bottom of the loop presents its own problems, that others have already outlined.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/download/4240/southwark_spine

[spider69]

gm99 Wrote:

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> For those claiming to live in the area affected

> but not to have known about the consultation:

> there's a large banner on the railings of Warwick

> Gardens opposite Holly Grove, which has been there

> since before Christmas.

Although I live in the area I have had no reason for the last month to pass or go up or down Lydnhurst Way passed Warwick Gardens, so no I have not seen this banner.

This also nay apply to others

[mikeb]

@Spider69 - now you mention it, when I was cycling down Lyndhurst Way this morning, I was more focused on the road and cars than banners on the side of the road, so yes I must have missed it.

Clearly what is needed here is special cycle measures where I can safely read all manner of roadside advertising, insulated from having to consider other road users.

[ed_pete]

There is also a banner on the railings of the gardens at the junction of Bellenden and Highshore near the mini roundabout.

[spider69]

Again no where I go in the course of a day.

How many people do?

[gm99]

Reminder that there is a drop-in session about the proposals this evening from 5-8pm at

St James RC Church

45 Elm Grove

London

SE15 5DD

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/cyclingandwalkingimprovements/events/bellenden-road-holly-grove-lyndhurst-way-cycling-2

[spider69]

Where was this advertised?

Again first I have heard just like the first 2.

Unfortunately I have other commitments.

It is a joke

[gm99]

Spider, it's advertised on the same Southwark consultation page as ed_pete posted at the top of this thread, which you joined on the 24/12.

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/cyclingandwalkingimprovements/consult_view

Genuine Q: where/how in your opinion should the consultation have been advertised?

[davidk]

A: Hand delivered on a silken pillow by James Barber.

[spider69]

In South London press/Southwark News

In various shop windows in Bellenden village and surrounding shops even in local pubs.

Banners as mentioned in prominent positions all around not in back waters and roads with flowing traffic

Local Cllrs actually making an effort to promote. There has been a deafening silence from all Lane Cllrs.

Again apart those who will have been informed in a limited way by Southwark I suspect would be members of Peckham Vision. There used to be Bellenden Residents group many years ago but that seems to have died a death.

As I and others suspect it will be decided on those in the loop in organisations like above who have members who have to change what is a well tested system that works.

Media responses from those who have no connection to the area but want to turn the area back to fields for a more green way of life. Southwark loves email responses with no resident confirmation if real.

Change is alway welcome and the area has benefited from the new influx but common sense seems to have been lost in favour of over the top Heath and safety for no apparent reason.

We still have pavements, crossings and traffic islands which will be replaced with the same plus months of disruption.

If it was an accident black spot something would have to change. It is not.

Lack of participation and advertising from the Labour Cllrs speaks volumes

What I cannot understand is why they want to change a free flowing system to a 2 way system, what is different to the mass of traffic when it is done.

You still have mass traffic and then have two sets of traffic to view which will make crossing more difficult and congestion at all the junctions

[mikeb]

I made the effort last night to try to find the banner when coming home on my bike. In my efforts to crane my neck when going round the one-way system, I nearly came off. It is not possible to safely see the banner when cycling.

[rupert jones]

I have tried to find any comment from Lane Cllrs on this but it seems to be a barren dessert of no comment.

If Cllr Barber can comment on something that is not his area why cannot our Cllrs.

As as been pointed out on various posts it feels that this has already been decided by Labour led Southwark

Will they produce all responses for and against, actual numbers or just %

Strange there has not been more advertising locally apart from a few random banners in the boonies.

If it goes through hope people are prepared for months and months of chaos for something that is already there and tried and tested

Conway anybody.

[edhistory]

Do you suspect this is already baked into the F.M.Conway 2016/17 work programme?

[mikeb]

I've just read in detail the proposals, including the 2013 consultation (available here http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s37522/Bellenden%20Area%20-%20BRIEFING%20PAPER.pdf)

They really are low-quality proposals and indicative of an unbelievably nanny-state mentality. As a cyclist, I feel able to make this comment: this sort of attitude displayed by Southwark, also recently evidenced in the ridiculous changes to Townley Rd / EDG junction, increases hostility and resentment towards cyclists. It is counterproductive and a waste of public money.

I would strongly encourage others to comment before the deadline of 16th Jan.

(reposting list to consultation again: https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/cyclingandwalkingimprovements/consult_view)

[Curtiv]

As someone who lives in the area affected I think its a great idea. I dont cycle but I do regularly try to cross both the chadwick/lyndhurst/bellenden and holly grove/highshore/bellenden junctions on foot with young children. Holly grove/highshore/bellenden is particularly terrifying as cars tend to accelerate around the corner rather than taking any account of pedestrians. I am more than prepared for a few months of disruption to make significant improvements to the experince of walking around my neighbourhood

[rupert jones]

I think most people would agree with you regarding these crossing points and better pedestrian junctions would be better.

However I have found if you wait on the crossings traffic will stop.

Deciding when to cross is your responsibility.

Again please state how many accidents there have been since 1989 when the road system went in.

Why change everything when the above improvements will suffice.

[dirac]

taper Wrote:

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> Biggest issue for cyclists round there is the

> quality of road service on Lyndhurst Way, which is

> dreadful.

>

> And the really big issue is that the whole of the

> Bellenden area is used as a rat run and

> cut-through. anything to address that would

> really make a big difference

Can't reiterate this enough. The Lyndhurst road surface is so bad for cycling on, and the speeds of the cars in the general area is just too high to be safe (given the proximity of the school etc). Just lowering the speed would make a massive difference IMO.

[peckham_ryu]

Even though I cross or use the one-way section every day, I've found myself ambivalent to the Council's ideas.

The current set up isn't great: crossing Lyndhust Way on foot at the junction of Chadwick Road can be a bit of a hair-raising near-sprint at times because traffic always zips round the one-way bend at pace. I don't know if the changes would improve things, but I doubt they will make it even worse so I'm willing to give it a go.

Why am I bringing this up now the consultation has closed? It's just because Thursday's Guardian had an article about some studies which suggest that the traffic speed should reduce if the one-way system is removed. The theory is that less shepherding by planners forces road users to switch on their self-preservation instincts, because less certainty makes us feel more vulnerable. It's a counterintuitive argument (when you're feeling vulnerable) but makes some kind of sense. Maybe there's some hope that the speedy drivers will be self-calming the change goes ahead.

Article is here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/04/removal-road-markings-safer-fewer-accidents-drivers

[gm99]

Looks like it's going ahead

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s59628/Bellenden%20Rd%20Holly%20Gr.%20Lynhurst%20way%20-%20walking%20and%20cycling%20improvements.pdf

[rupert james]

Of course, did you expect any other result?

Southwark wanted it and the in the loop mob provided the votes.

If the number of responses represents the view of the vast majority you have to be living on cloud 9.

The whole process was a joke as many people never knew it was going on. My lane Cllr never went out their way to promote it. But they are Labour.

Very few votes but again % numbers to push it through.

Look at the letters sent out and the number of replies.

[mikeb]

What a waste of money. I'm about to cycle back through there tonight and it will annoy me all the way through.

[Charles Notice]

With Trio closing down and the chocolate shop being relegated to the boondocks the new Bellenden Residents must have a pointless and expensive victory.

A complete and pointless exercise must agree I too never heard a word from any Labour Cllrs. The previous Cllrs at least had an interest in all residents views.

Agree % votes over real responses.

What next?

[gm99]

Consultation appendices here http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s59629/Appendices.pdf including all response comments (be warned - lots of shouting in BLOCK CAPITALS)

Fwiw the consultation report claims a 19% response rate, either ignoring the fact that respondents like me don't live on one of the roads directly canvassed or discounting eg my response.

[spider69]

19% response out of 100% a complete ramp.

Take a look at the actual numbers not the %.

If this is a mandate for change there is something very wrong, still quoting the % as Southwark always does means they will force it through although the consultation had a very poor response. Still it was advertised far and wide for all to see.

Should be thrown in the bin.

A complete joke.

Still labour Cllrs will push it through. They should resign as they do not represent the lane only a few.