Trains just getting worse? What can we do?

[JohnL]

ed_pete Wrote:

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> I was going to say something similar. The lack of

> an interchange between the ginger line and Brixton

> tube seems ridiculous to say the least.

2 years ago they were considering it

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/elections-and-council/about-lambeth/london-overground-stations-study-for-lambeth

[d.b]

Seems to be a feature of life in South London, the trains are rubbish and they aren't going to change...

The biggest investments in infrastructure (e.g. Thameslink program and Bakerloo line extension) aren't even adding new track, so they're just running more/better trains on existing lines. So many problems caused by tangled junctions and lines crossing over each other, overcomplicated routes all converging at a crowded terminus compared to the simple tube "there and back" type routes.

Not sure what it would take to build actual new track/tunnels linking new bits of South London but it would be hugely transformative...

[Bic Basher]

The interchange to Charing Cross at London Bridge returns in August. When it opens, instead of walking to the gateline, there will be escalators, stairs and a lift mid platform which takes you to the new basement concourse which will take you to the new Charing Cross platforms which have been built where Platform 8 used to be.

This will be a major improvement on the old dank corridor and waiting area which would get crushed during the peaks.

However, there will be no direct service to Cannon Street for 18 months when this opens.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Thanks Bic Basher, that's good news.

[James]

I am holding out for August now in the hope that all this disruption and chaos at London Bridge will have been worth it.

Does anyone know when our hopeless Thameslink services will be improved? Four trains per hour all day and evening trains would be a dream come true but I suspect that is also way too much to ask for.

[Bic Basher]

James Wrote:

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> I am holding out for August now in the hope that

> all this disruption and chaos at London Bridge

> will have been worth it.

>

> Does anyone know when our hopeless Thameslink

> services will be improved? Four trains per hour

> all day and evening trains would be a dream come

> true but I suspect that is also way too much to

> ask for.

The problem with Thameslink is there's no room for improvement on the trains on the Wimbeldon loop. Thanks to the campaign where people campaigned for a through service, rather than terminating at Blackfrairs, there's no scope for TfL to replace the services with London Overground trains, nor for Thameslink to improve the service on either the Catford loop or Wimbledon/Sutton services.

When the Thameslink works finish, there will be plenty of trains at London Bridge, which will be much more than the old 4tph service, yet PR/DH and Nunhead, along with Herne Hill won't see any of the advantages bar a nice new train.

Those who use those poor 'local' TL trains may find it more viable to use Southern into London Bridge, then change for Thameslink for stations such as Blackfriars and St. Pancras instead from Dec 2018.

[healey]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> If you need a direct link to the West End, moving

> to ED was a terrible decision!

Haha, but I love it here and will put up with it!

Nevertheless the need cannot be denied. Whether it be the Bakerloo line, the re-opening of Camberwell station or a Victoria-Overground link, a faster route directly north from here is badly needed.

[healey]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> ED and Peckham are good for commuting to the city

> (putting the current temporary situation to one

> side). Other areas are good for the west end, but

> not so convenient for the city (e.g. Putney,

> Wandsworth). Just the way it is.

>

> You can't expect every area of London to have a

> direct link into the west end.

Perhaps not, but there's a huge gap in the network at the centre of which sits Walworth Rd. A no-brainer to fix.

[healey]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > In fact, I have suggested some secure bike

> parking

> > at Brixton and some more buses connecting to

> the

> > tube there. This seems pretty modest to me and

> > possibly more constructive than 'just move'.

>

> If that's aimed at me, you must have

> misunderstood.

>

> Someone else said that the lack of a direct west

> end link was the core problem. I disagree - and I

> repeat - it's not realistic to expect every area

> to have a direct link into the west end.

Perfectly reasonable when said area lies at the far end of a major northern route filled with bus traffic that heads into the West End. Also perfectly reasonable when people are clogging up eastern and western lines to avoid this route.

[MarkE]

nxjen Wrote:

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> For those seeking a direct train line from ED to

> Charing Cross, I'm no engineer but there would be

> huge logistical problems. The line from ED joins

> the lines from Kent and other places in SE London

> at Southwark Park Road. ED trains get in at London

> Bridge at platform 14/15, the line that carries

> trains to Charing Cross from London Bridge

> commences at platform 6. So tracks would have to

> be built with points changes to bring trains from

> platform 14 to platform 6 on the length of track

> from Southwark Bridge Road to London Bridge.

> Possible I guess but it would affect the running

> of all trains from Kent, rest of SE London and ED

> line. Could only result in fewer trains all round

> and more delays.

Yup. There's a useful article on the topic here, which includes this diagram of the layout:

 

[healey]

nxjen Wrote:

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> For those seeking a direct train line from ED to

> Charing Cross, I'm no engineer but there would be

> huge logistical problems.

I agree about this, but other links could be improved to better facilitate it. No reason a tube link to Camberwell wouldn't work if the will was there.

[JohnL]

healey Wrote:

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> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you need a direct link to the West End,

> moving

> > to ED was a terrible decision!

>

>

> Haha, but I love it here and will put up with it!

>

>

> Nevertheless the need cannot be denied. Whether it

> be the Bakerloo line, the re-opening of Camberwell

> station or a Victoria-Overground link, a faster

> route directly north from here is badly needed.

I've totally lost interest in the Bakerloo extension :)

Camberwell + Walworth Rd need something.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Does anyone know when platform 15 at LB is due to go 'full width' again? The congestion caused by everyone slowly shuffling off the platform is a big part of the frustration when travelling in rush hour (also seems like it is something which could have been prioritised for resolution earlier in the works).

[James]

On your point about the Wimbledon Loop BicBasher - another case of wealthier parts of London with already superior transport trumping us. Wimbledon has a tram, a tube and direct services into Waterloo every few minutes, all day long!

[landsberger]

James Wrote:

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> Coming home from the theatre on Sunday I noticed

> there were only two trains per hour to Peckham

> Rye. I hope this is not an ongoing situation? When

> I first moved to East Dulwich there was a train to

> London Bridge every ten minutes on weekdays. Now

> there are only four per hour, badly spaced. What

> with no London Bridge-Charing Cross trains at the

> moment, my morning Thameslink service is overrun

> with people going to Elephant & Castle instead, to

> get straight onto the tube into the West End. The

> trains are often late and/or cancelled. The whole

> system is creaking under the strain, overcrowding

> is a daily occurrence... Does anyone know when any

> of this will get better? And why, while more and

> more people are using the trains from East Dulwich

> and Peckham, there seems to be no improvement

> whatsoever in frequency or capacity?

The short answer ? Very, very little. It's not just the rebuild of London Bridge, it's the shortage of drivers. So much so, they are cancelling services because there are not enough staff to drive them.

The lines you talk about are part of a mega franchise "Thameslink Southern Great Northern" that was recently awarded to Govia. Oh, you can write a letter of complaint that will get a form response to; you can refer the complaint to the well-meaning but toothless watchdog, London Travelwatch, who will write bon mots and report their dissatisfaction in their annual report, but actually lack any powers to do anything. You can write to your MP who will no doubt do the same.

The only people empowered to actually do anything are the shareholders of Govia and the Department for Transport. And, as the franchisee's performance is within what they consider to be acceptable limits, neither will do anything.

I hate to be the harbinger of doom, but it's going to get worse. "Thameslink Southern Great Northern" vastly overbid for the franchise and are now looking to cut costs. This will be done in part by keeping driver staff to the bare minimum, and also by destaffing huge swathes of their stations, where there will only be people selling tickets from 6.30am to 11am. Outside of this, there will (probably) be someone checking tickets, showing people how to use the ticket machines and answering queries.

Your sole hope to have them stripped of the franchise would be to find any element of financial impropriety in the parent company (which is why Connex were stripped of the franchise).

[JohnL]

But Go Ahead apologised

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dba00280-d616-11e5-829b-8564e7528e54.html#axzz41kU5jH4X

Surely they're not being disingenuous :)

[uncleglen]

Of course everything is going to get worse as more people pile into the capital...all future plans are obsolete before they are realised. Ultimately politicians are in charge and they are interested in only 2 things...power and your votes!

[James]

Well thank goodness we pay such excellent value fares to compensate for the dreadful service. And thank goodness, since the train companies are drawing profits, we are not subsidising them from our taxes too.

Hold on a minute... what's that you're saying?

[Bic Basher]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Does anyone know when platform 15 at LB is due to

> go 'full width' again? The congestion caused by

> everyone slowly shuffling off the platform is a

> big part of the frustration when travelling in

> rush hour (also seems like it is something which

> could have been prioritised for resolution earlier

> in the works).

I'd assume when the Charing Cross platforms open as part of the blockade is where the stairs/escalators/lifts are to the basement concourse. Platforms 10-14 also have parts blocked off for this reason.

[Lowlander]

Bic Basher Wrote:

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> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Does anyone know when platform 15 at LB is due

> to

> > go 'full width' again? The congestion caused by

> > everyone slowly shuffling off the platform is a

> > big part of the frustration when travelling in

> > rush hour (also seems like it is something

> which

> > could have been prioritised for resolution

> earlier

> > in the works).

>

> I'd assume when the Charing Cross platforms open

> as part of the blockade is where the

> stairs/escalators/lifts are to the basement

> concourse. Platforms 10-14 also have parts

> blocked off for this reason.

Scheduled be August as per Bic Basher's comments.

[goosey-goosey]

This is a very informative thread. Thanks to all contributors.

One comment on the non-viability of a direct ED/PR connection to the West End - I'm sure someone in the know once told me a branchline could be reopened somewhere between the Elephant & Castle/Blackfriars and Charing Cross at relatively low cost. Perhaps capacity problems at CX prevent this.

[northdulmum]

Currently on train now, it's rammed and we're not yet at Queens Road. I remember living there and the nightmare it was getting on an already packed train and that was ten years ago...

one solution is to clear out the seats in a carriage? There are 8 ppl sitting down which could easily fit 20.

[JohnL]

Yet strangely Thameslink wasn't as bad today - although still late of course.

[rabbitears]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Of course everything is going to get worse as more

> people pile into the capital...

Don't worry, Brexit is going to fix the problem of East Dulwich workers wanting to commute into the City for work :(

"I've totally lost interest in the Bakerloo extension "

Why? A regular bus to a Bakerloo station on OKR would solve a lot of problems and would be easy-ish to introduce.

[JohnL]

rabbitears Wrote:

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> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Of course everything is going to get worse as

> more

> > people pile into the capital...

> Don't worry, Brexit is going to fix the problem of

> East Dulwich workers wanting to commute into the

> City for work :(

>

> "I've totally lost interest in the Bakerloo

> extension "

> Why? A regular bus to a Bakerloo station on OKR

> would solve a lot of problems and would be

> easy-ish to introduce.

I don't know - maybe after the retirement changes I'll be interested again :)