warning. big brother police state tactics in effect at herne hill crossroads

[eater81]

Just received in the post this morning a notice from Lambeth Council. A ?60 fine for turning right at the crossroads by Herne Hill station / Brockwell park. Caught by a hidden CCTV camera! I am not amused at the pathetic underhand tactics employed by which ever idiot at the council it was that thought it was a good idea to put a camera there. Are there any warnings of the presence of these cameras? No. Is this right? No. Yet another example of the big brother police state in which we live.

Anyway, my point is do not turn right at said crossroads, no matter how safe or innocent such a manoeuvre might appear to be. Otherwise those who believe in treating the citizens of this country like children will have their 60 quid off you.

?60 quid!! Lambeth Council "Hidden Camera Department", may the flies of a thousand plagues infest your rancid corpses.

[Mark]

Are there signs like this http://www.metrokc.gov/kcdot/roads/traffic/bingo/noright.gif or this http://www.bristol.ac.uk/imagelib/tsao-t35.gif there?

[SeanMacGabhann]

In 2008 is it STILL "underhand" tactics?? There are road signs and road rules and the chances are that if we knowingly break them there IS a camera catching us - might not like it but only the very slow could still claim to be surprised?

If only there were cameras to catch people making noise in the bars of LL eh??

[KalamityKel]

AND next door neighbours! (6)

eater81 if u did wrong accept it!

[Asset]

If you're turning right from Railton Road to go under the bridge (where there is a no right turn) you have to cross a pedestrian crossing while the green crossing signal is lit.

In that case you deserve the ?60 fine in my opinion.

[SeanMacGabhann]

But see, eater81 isn't complaining about the fine - but BIG Brother society

...

...

...

Except he/she IS complaining about the fine and couldn't give a toss about cameras unless directly affected, and would normally say to liberal do-gooders "if you have nothing to hide...." etc

Or that's my guess anyway

[eater81]

The fine is a pain in the neck, however it is the secretive tactics used to catch me which I hate. I did not hear about this offence until 28 days after it was commiteed! Trial, judge and jury all completed by a computer.

Why are there no signs warning of the cameras? Surely that would act as more of a deterent than sending people a fine in the post THREE weeks after they have already comitted the offence.

And it is a bit pathetic isnt it? A 60 quid fine for turning right when not supposed to......big deal. Tis not the actual fine which annoys me but the pathetic waste of time I must undergo in order to deal with the council's tedious money catching tactics.

SeanMacGabhan, you say "In 2008 is it STILL "underhand" tactics?? There are road signs and road rules and the chances are that if we knowingly break them there IS a camera catching us - might not like it but only the very slow could still claim to be surprised? "

It is a sad day when we are forced to assume that we are being watched on camera, and I for one refuse to accept, and will play no part in such a society.

[SeanMacGabhann]

it's a sadder day still when so many people assume the rules don't apply to them (have you seen the road-casualty stats lately?) that authorities have to resort to that kind of thing. It's not really up to you to decide what is and isn't safe.. when you take your test you learn teh rules of the road and you must know they apply to you.

If only one or two people were breaking the law then there would be no need for the cameras - simple.

[Asset]

Would you rather a nice traffic policeperson standing in the middle of the road?

If there were no methods to catch people making the dangerous and illegal right turn, there would be no deterrent. Not likely to do it again are you? May mean you won't knock down some unsuspecting pedestrian.

[SeanMacGabhann]

It's usually at this point that someone says people like Asset and me are "holier than thou" or summat. Next time I see a road accident I'm going to go up to the driver and shake their hand for sticking it to the PC brigade...

[Jeremy]

It makes me laugh when people complain about "money-grabbing" from traffic cameras... as if the govenment are in some way selfish for enforcing the law. Do you imagine that this money is just going straight into some councillor's pocket? Besides, you obviously won't be doing it again, so the camera and the fine has served its purpose.

In the meantime, accept that you've f***ed up and pay the fine. If you don't want to be treated like a child, don't act like one, with all this talk of "big brother police state".

[Pierre]

eater81, I'd like to congratulate you on some top trolling today.

: P

[PeckhamRose]

If there were no lights there, but roundabouts instead, encouraging people to think for themselves and make decisions and be sensible, then what happened would not be illegal.

But we're in a society where our abilities to learn to make decisions and informed choices and practice our art of common sense are being killed off by politicians and councils and Big Brother.

But the signs say don't turn right and you did. Pay up.

I am fighting one in Westminster Council. I parked on a double yellow Line. I will pay but only when they explain why they put the fine in an envelope saying "This is a warning only you do not need to pay"! I shall let that one go to court I think.

[woodie]

that camera has been operating for ages. caught me once.

[SeanMacGabhann]

The Dutch experiment.But like drinking law changes, citizens of different countries seem to behave differently. I'm pretty sure it would end in tears in the UK... I'm all for giving it a go tho'

[eater81]

I refuse to accept this fine. Inspection of the camera images reveals that there was not a single pedestrian or vehicle anywhere near my car at the time of the manoeuvre. In my mind what I did was perfectly safe, indeed I have never had an accident in over 10 years of driving.

If Lambeth council want to make that junction safer, putting a warning sign up re the cameras would prevent more "right turners" than by sending them a fine, 3 Weeks after the horse has bolted. The only conclusion I can draw is that they are more interested in cashing in on "stealth" fines than actuall improving road safety at Herne Hill.

Anyway, I have voiced my opinion, which people are entitled to agree or disagree with. The original point of my post was to warn others of the dangers of this junction. Don't let them get u!

[Pierre]

Simple solution, eater81. Just remove the licence plates from your vehicle. This will prevent the cameras identifying your vehicle.

After all if it's just up to what you consider to be safe, then having no number plates isn't going to hurt anyone, is it?

: P

[SeanMacGabhann]

"I refuse to go to jail for this burglary. There was no-one in the house, no-one was hurt and they are absolutely loaded so they won't suffer in any way at all. I'm just warning others that teh police are about in this Big Brother society so be careful if you go on the rob!"

[citizenED]

Admin - could we please have a separate section for anyone moaning about their personal traffic injustices. Pretty please.

[cdonline]

Now I understand. Road signs telling you not do something are not enough. You want another sign to tell you to definitely not do this, as you are going to be caught.

Why not just follow the rules or get off the road.

[giggirl]

eater81 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Inspection of the camera images reveals that there was not a single

> pedestrian or vehicle anywhere near my car at the

> time of the manoeuvre. In my mind what I did was

> perfectly safe....

Let me get this straight. You think it's perfectly fine to make a judgement call on whether or not it's OK to toss that particular traffic regulation? Do you know how many f*ckwits there are on our roads (ballpark figure someone, anyone?). Jeez - imagine them all driving round Lambeth making judgement calls. I would never leave home again.

[Pierre]

No, it's fine for _me_ to drive around while talking on my mobile 'phone. I'm terribly important, you see, and of course I'm a better driver than everyone else so when I make a judgement call I should be outside the law. The law's really only for those stupid people that get in my way. Tsk, I don't know, ridiculous pathetic nanny state trying to tell _me_ which laws I should avoid. I'm crossing my arms and ignoring it, la la la.

: P

[giggirl]

Pierre - it's you isn't it? You're the **** with the blue BWM on Sylvester Road. Let's get two things absolutely straight. Number one, I wear very high heels and I don't run fast. Number two, if you're going to flip me off then don't do it whilst singing along to Bon Jovi because that's just so wrong.

[louisiana]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But see, eater81 isn't complaining about the fine

> - but BIG Brother society

>

> ...

> ...

> ...

>

> Except he/she IS complaining about the fine and

> couldn't give a toss about cameras unless directly

> affected, and would normally say to liberal

> do-gooders "if you have nothing to hide...." etc

>

> Or that's my guess anyway

I reckon eater81 should get on his bike. Then he wouldn't have any cameras taking pix of his registration, and he might stop moaning about Big Brother when he's really complaining about his alleged right to mow people down.

I have a suspicion that eater81 is committing quite a few other offences too. Someone should put a tail on him ;-)

[Cassius]

"I refuse to accept this fine. Inspection of the camera images reveals that there was not a single pedestrian or vehicle anywhere near my car at the time of the manoeuvre. In my mind what I did was perfectly safe, indeed I have never had an accident in over 10 years of driving. "

So do you go through red lights when no-one else is around? I agree that some road rules seem pretty petty, but why should any rules apply to some and not to others?