annaj

I think it's more than that, Jah, I think he's gone. Bredan, no, I would never have dared correct *Bob*

What do you think we did wrong to make him leave us?

Blue Peter and no, not retrospective, he was always creepy.

Sorry, Quids, even as a child I just couldn't stand Chris Tarrent, besides I was (am) a middle-class swot, so it was Swap Shop for me. PGC, you're right, I'm afraid, you weren't in it. I was an extremely exclusive society of two, but since Mockney has forgotten all about it, I guess it's me who's sounding weird now...

Aura, I always admire the absolute simple bare honesty of you posts. It's hard, as Mockney said, to know what else to say except that I wish you and your partner happiness. Good decision Chair to bring this out to the lounge for more people to see.

*shameless in-joke alert* It might have sounded weird, maybe, to anyone who wasn't in the EDWNJ(NTTAWWBJIJT,W,WN)S, but I liked it.

Hmmmm I'm fairly certain BBW can be wrong, but, yes, it would be nice to put a face to the name. ps you're right about the number, I goggled, couldn't resist.

I'm enjoying the same trip down memory lane MickMac and I think you're right. Could this be the very first thing we've ever agreed on? Edited - because I put Mick Mac's K in the wrong place!

The Scotland thread is clearly the one to watch, Quids.

KidKruger, I agree that a blame and compensation culture is destructive and detrimental to society as a whole, but I think you're anger is misdirected here. Jojo didn't acutally say she (correct gender assumption I hope Jojo) was looking to make money, rather asked if she could or should report it. I took that to mean that she wanted to report it to the council so it gets fixed, which is what she has confirmed in her subsequent posts. This is a good thing since it stops other people getting hurt. It was the replies to her post (at least one of which I read to be sarcastic) that suggested trying to get compensation.

*weary sigh* No.

At the risk of being called a prude (or have someone start a thread about how good I am at telling people off) can I say that I think this has gone on long enough. This thread has been entirely hijacked by a small group with juvenille, smutty innuendo and in-jokes. I actually think LE was serious in offering her services to help people enjoy a guilt-free and happy sex life. If the subsequent posts prove anything, it's that there is certainly a need for her services, as several posters don't seem to be able to treat sex as anything other than something dirty to snigger about.

Ok, I've held my tongue on for the greater good of the debate, but I really don't think I can any longer. MrBen, do you really fail to see the hypocrisy in saying that you were deliberately provocative in your first post, but accusing anyone who responded to that deliberate provocation with a strong opinion of taking it too personally or being hysterical and rude? In my opinion, phrases like "why should I, as a tax payer, be funding these skivers " and "how do you feel about funding these lazy people" were not just provocative, but offensive and justified a strong, but calm, response, which is what I feel I gave only to be brushed aside as shrill. This complete double standard is what drove me from this thread initially and I only returned out of respect for Quids effort to bring order out of chaos and re-start a reasoned debate. It was a mistake.

No problem Fiskaroo, I sympathise. I once posted quite a light hearted post on a thread about cats only to be told that my cat's mischievious behaviour was down to the way it had "been brought up"!

Mmmmmmmm Il Mirto pizza followed by ice-cream parlour ice-cream, that would be like being on holiday. Is it a proper sit down ice-cream parlour?

Cate, I don't understand why you're being so aggresive. It seems fairly obvious that Fiskaroo posted to try and indentify the owner of this specific cat. I realise that your passionate opinion on keeping cats in a night, expressed here and whenever a remotely cat based discussion comes up, is most likely based on caring deeply about cats and their wellfare, but you're being rude here. Fiskaroo posted a perfectly poilte and simple question and it is not your place to lecture her on how she choses to care for her cat. For what it's worth I agree, in principle, that cats should be kept in at night, but it doesn't always work. We started off keeping ours in at night, but noticed that they got aggitated and fought each other more when we did (we noticed in winter when we shut the cat falp earlier they were much more aggresive towards each other). They also started to pee on the skirting boards at night, and yes, before you ask we have a perfectly clean and suitable litter tray that is always emptied before we go to bed. Since we started leaving the cat flap open at night they are calmer, appear happier and don't pee on the skirting boards. I don't know why it works that way for them/us, but it does. We realise that by letting them out we are running the risk of them getting run over, but we knew that anyway when we got cats in London and we would rather have happy relaxed cats at slightly increased risk that contsantly fighting and miserable cats who are a bit safer. That is our choice.

Keef, all valid points and there are lots of similarities and cross over between public services. The only reason I was making the distinction so clearly and repeatedly was that earlier in this thread it caused aggrevation and misunderstanding when I was talking specifically about the NHS and others were talking about all PS. What I was trying to express when I said that the NHS philosophy was different was the overall purpose and ethos of the NHS. The NHS is the only national, public organisation for the provision of specifically healthcare to the whole populaiton free at the point of contact. My point was not that it is better or worse than anything else just that, whatever anyone thinks of it, it is unique. And so whilst there are lots of related, similar and equally important areas it is actually very hard to make a valid direct comparison with anything else.

Quids, out of respect for your thoughtful, diplomatic and concise summary I'm staging an un-flounce. And in response to your summary questions: Firstly I would say, generally, that the distinction between NHS and wider PS is important, because I think the NHS is different to any other organisation in this country in terms of size, function, diversity and philosophy. That is not to say that the NHS is perfect, untouchable or beyond question, just that, in my opinion, it is different. 1. Yes, based on the data I've seen. There is a higher rate of sickness in the PS generally and the NHS ranks about half way within the public sector and higher than the private sector. However, because the NHS is different, the comparison to the wider private sector may not be a fair, relevant or representative one. 2. Yes. In the case of the NHS it matters because of what it represents, which in my opinion, based on the findings of the report, is an unhealthy working enviroment with high levels of injury, stress and bullying. It does also matter financially, but for me that is a secondary concern. If we could redirect money to services by saving it on temps and agency fees, that would be a great bonus, but the important story here is the miserable and unhealthy workforce. Failing to see the signs of a declining and demoralised workforce now could cost an awful lot more in the future than could be saved by chasing people back to work and stamping out duvet days. In the context of the wider PS, yes, I can see that increasing efficiency, by decreasing sickness would benefit everyone, as long as those who genuinely need time off are not left vulnerable, but it's not the point of these figures for me. 3. I think I've already covered why I think work within the NHS is different and I'm anxious not to go over old ground or draw accusations of being overly emotive. The issues that I've raised do apply mostly to clinicians, but MrBen's example that as the IT support guy he was called in to fix systems that had failed in front line services shows that, actually, everyone is affected to an extent by the stress of providing services in a situaiton that can be literally life and death. The bottom line is that in the last six months, in the course of my normal daily work (the majority of my which is after 5pm) I have saved peoples lives. I have also been hit, called a b***ch and a c**t, threatened, and shouted at and harrassed over the state of the NHS generally all whilst trying to treat my patients to the very best of my ability. That is the reality and it is different. If that's emotive so be it. The issue of skiving, sickness "allowance" and back room take-it-easy attitude I really have no experience of. I'm happy to believe all those who say it goes on amongst non-clinical NHS staff and in the wider PS, but it doesn't amongst clinicians. I don't know how widespread it is, but I'm inclined to agree with Sean that it goes on everywhere and I really don't think it's the important issue here. 4. I don't know what exactly can be done, but as a starting point I would say better absence monitoring and structured reporting and return to work (a change that Loulou pointed out is already underway) both for monitoring and for early identification and support of staff with problems. It would also combat the problem of forced or early return to work (shown in the report to be associated with higher sickness). Better occupational health and treatment services for staff with injuries and illness would also help. It's the health service for goodness sake, it should be acheivable to treat our own sick and injured staff! The majority of NHS staff, although not PS staff overall, are female and there is a high proportion of carers amongst NHS staff, so better support for working parents and carers might also help. Most important it to overcome the culture of bullying and pressure within the NHS. As in any target based and stressful environment middle managerment are under huge pressure to conform to various measures and targets and all to often this pressure is transmitted to staff in negaitve and destructive ways. (what the expression? The f**cked kick downwards) That culture is changing, but slowly and better teaching of middle managers (clinicians inevitably find themselves in management roles as they become more senior without necessarily choosing to or being prepared for them) would help. I'm conscious that my responses stick very much to the NHS side of the debate and I'm sorry if that frustrates anyone, but it's what I know and it's what I'm passionate about.

Boys, please don't fight on my thread. I appreciate the concern from anyone who thought this was creepy or sinister, but it honestly never even crossed my mind that it was anything other than a joke and I know that's the spirit in which it was meant. Jah, BBW does sometimes go too far and when I think he has I don't hesitate to tell him so, but this is just a bit of silly fun. BBW, Jah really is a lovely man and I don't understand why the two of you get into such fights, but don't please don't get into another one now. Now, please, can we just let this thread slide away down the page.

Well, this is very odd indeed. I think Michael is closest to the truth when it comes to the matter of my correctness, although, as PGC pointed out, wide of the mark on the delicate subject of my maidenhood. But in the words of the good fairy at my christening... Stop it. It's getting very silly.

It's even possible that I deliberately started both sentences with and just to try and trip you up, isn't it? But surely no-one would be that unkind. ;-)

Get ready to feel even more of a pinhead. From the Compact Oxford English Dictionary (I can't find it online, but I have my copy open in front of me): "Contrary to what many people think, it is not wrong to start a sentence with a conjunction such as and or but. The practice is common in literature and can be effective." The Compact Oxford English Dictionary. Appendix 1 Effective English. Chapter 3. Page 11.

I have also worked out how to get the laptop to play test match special in the background. MrJ is going to be so proud when he gets home.

Ok, so, cricket's not really my thing, but every man I'm related to in any way loves it, so yesterday I thought I'd try and get to grips with this (amazing what a girl will do instead of studying) So, let me see if I've got this, if we get them all out we've won and the only way they could win is by staying in until the end of Monday, scoring, ummm, 400 and something or if it rained from now til Monday evening. Well, even I'm a bit excited by that! ps - I'm not teasing by the way, I really am exceptionally dim about sports and it took me a good part of yesterday to figure that out.

And in a lovely own goal, BBW, you misspelt (and, assuming that's what you meant) misused emeritus and used a capital after a comma. And so it goes on, since I'm assuming I will also have made an unnoticed mistake.