Keef

They can say Tartare to their good rep!

This will likely be my last post on this, as I don't want to cause upset, but just thought that this video (at the top of the story) was interesting, as I'd never really heard anything from this man. 18 minute interview with Stefan Popper, the coroner.

I don't know why you find this so upsetting, I can only hope it's not through personal loss. I apologise for bringing it up. It was just a genuine question that had been bugging me for days having watched and listened to many interviews, and heard stories I'd heard before. I don't think that anyone on here thinks it's any less tragic than even the biggest Liverpool fan though.

I use LM, and have never had problems with it. Of course it's breaking copyright law, and I'd care if I had more oney.

I'm starting to regret starting this. Okay, I can understand them wanting "the truth", what happened after 3:15 and all that. I still don't really see what difference it would make, but then I'm not her, or anyone else involved. I just can't help thinking they want someone held accountable, and frankly I don't think that is fair. Imagine you were a 25 year old police officer on that day. Chaos is breaking out everywhere, people are screaming, an ambulance arrives, you don't know what to do, you send it around the corner... 20 years later, at 45, you know with hindsight, that had you let that ambulance through, a life or 2 may have been saved. I'd imagine you'd feel pretty horrible about it. Question is, do you deserve to be hauled in front of a court and punished?

I think today is perfect timing but there you go, and I'm not trying to upset anyone Anna, but again, it's still not clear what the hell "justice" is. The ambulances not being allowed on to the pitch for example, was a massive problem, no doubt, but the driver who was allowed on (who's name escapes me) said this weekend, that as he drove on, a Police Officer said to him "they're still fighting". This is not an attack on Liverpool fans specifically, you can't blame people for suspecting hooliganism back then! As for the lies in the press, that is a seperate issue, and yes a nasty nasty one. On that front, I think a full apology even 20 years later would be some sort of Justice. Regarding a police cover up, I am sure things were made to look like they wanted them to look like, 70s & 80s, just ask the Guildford 4. My question was quite simply, what would give peace to the people campaigning, what would satisfy them? That's all I'm asking, I'm not trying to take a side. As snorky said, it's very emotive, which is why it's hard to have a discussion about it.

That'll be why I haven't written a song in about 4 years!

Not sure they'd want any control. I've applid for grants through work to run youth schemes, and they just give you the money and let you get on with it a lot of the time.

The Hilsborough Justice Campaign website states And my question is, what would make them rest easy, what exactly would "justce" be? Please don't anyone think I am unsympathetic, the disaster was a terrible terrble thing, and evidence shows that it was avoidable, and big mistakes were made. But, what would make them happy? That answers nothing, again, just this call for "justice". My concern is that they want someone to put their hand up and say "yeah, I caused that that day, and should spend the rest of my life locked up". Would that bring anyone back, or even offer real comfort? I doubt it. I just don't get the whole thing. I get the hurt, the craving for the truth and all that, but at the end of the day, I believe it was just a bag of errors, that I am sure a lot of people feel horrifically guilty about to this day, but that could have happened at any ground any time back then. Does this make me less of a Liverpool fan? Does this make me insensitive? I personally don't think so. I have nothing but the greatest sympathy for everyone effected by that day 20 years ago, but I frankly think they'd be happier people if they could let it go, as I don't think even they know what it is they're really chasing after.

Going to start a seperate thread on this...

It's fair that you enjoy this MM, but you can't think that anyone else will smell any sweeter surely? I'm with quids.

I said "the boys done good", I'm proud of the effort. Chech is not the player he was, and they missed Terry, but both teams were rubbish at the back. Makes for exciting stuff.

Well, the boys done good, and fair play to Chelsea, they sorted themselves out in the second half. Gutted to go out, but a great match! Oh, and Quids, your lot did fuck it up ;-) *runs away giggling and hides*

Shows what confidence can do really. Quite sad that their fans are still saying Liverpool have fucked it up, you'd think they'd give their team some credit.

Bugger

Or maybe not.

Be honest and tell them you feel you're being undervaled for what you are doing at your current firm.

Are you watching ITV1? Maybe...

Chelsea look a bag of nerves, could this be a comeback? Whatever happens now, it's quite a match!

And this is why Bulldogs / stafs and the like have a bad name (td) Go Jess! Hope there is no attempt to have her destroyed. I do however feel most sorry for the dead dog.

No Gerrard, think the order just got taller. WTF is Lucas doing in the team?!?!?!?!?

I'm kind of with Louisa here, why wait an hour for food? Frankly, if I'd been told I couldn't order there and then, I'd assume it was a no go.

Spot on Jimmy! I've gotten a bit lost on this thread as to who is suggesting skin colour should or shouldn't be mentioned! At the end of the day though, it's a pathetic arguement to be having. If someone is black and they mug me, I'd say I was mugged by a black person, just as I'd mention if they were white, asian or whatever. I'm lost as to why this is an issue of any kind! I thought this was Lenk's point, but then I thought it was James' point, and yet they seem to be on opposing sides... My brain hurts.

Ha ha Jah, I love Yes Minister / Primeminister! Great quote!

Smartarse! ;-) Well out of context though, and you know it.