Keef

Sorry, to be clear, I know some people have NO pain relief at all. What I meant was that surely someone would give G&A a go before moving on to the epidural, much as Moos said above. Mrs Keef was similar, and like Moos, was told after that the baby just wouldn';t hav come out wihout help, so there would have been little point in ongoing suffering.

Surely everyone sees how they go with gas and air for a bit don't they?

Ignore my post then, and stick to the ones that follow it, as they are personal experience, thus helpful and valid ;-) My point is simply, that in a large charity with teachers from different backgroinds and beliefs, it is going to be pot luck what your local teacher favours.

For the record, I'm not anti NCT either, I was even at their weekend confrnece in Telford last week!!! (now that is commitment ... Actually, I was just holding the baby with a lot of fed up dads, whilst the missus went to all the talks) I think they do great work in lots of areas, but there are too many stories about these classes for it to be total myth. It obviously depends who you get, which is wrong really, as the information received should be uniform wherever you live IMO.

Could you put a Mozzy net up in front of the door? You'd get the light and the air, but no intruders.

I played at a wedding a while back, and towards the end of our set, during "Chelsea Dagger" a fight broke out on the dance floor, 2 guys rolling around on the floor punching each other. I was later told by the groom, that they were brothers, and this happened every time they went for a beer together.

I thought it was National Childbirth Trust? Sillywoman, how is it unhelpful? Someone has asked for opinions about it, so I gave an opinion I'd heard (she works at Chelsea & Westminister, so you don't need to worry). Other people then went on to say that they'd had the type of experience I'd described, so bite my head off all you like, but I don't think my post was unfair. Don't take everything said about the NCT as a direct comment about your classes. I even made a point of saying

Didn't realise it was Camberwell Grove, Mrs Keef thought it looked like a square near Walworth Road that her parents lived at when she was tiny.

We've taken our baby in a minicab a few times, in the sling. Lets be honest, most car seats aren't that safe anyway, so what's the problem.

Quite right! Thought Mrs Keef was going to stab this bloke, not long after our daughter was born, when he said "women who have epidurals, or 'lazy mothers' as I call them". What a tw@t. If you don't need one, great! Sure everyone would love not to need one. But to look down at someone who is in so much pain, they're willing to have a dirty big needle IN THEIR SPINE, is just sh!t. Anyway, sorry, off topic.

A lady does not caress her ring in public!

We didn't do NCT because of the money, we just felt it was too much for what they were offering. We went to classes at St Thomas' and were pleased with them. I'm not saying this is right, so don't bite my head off, but one midwife we know (as a friend) said she gets annoyed because she's seen lots of women who have been made to feel guilty about having epidurals by the NCT, as if it's failing somehow, and that they don't paint a real picture of what labour can be like. Only the "perfect" labour, where everything goes smoothly. As I say, that is not my opinion, as we didn't go to classes, so I'd have no right saying it, but it would worry me. I suspect you're more likely to make friends at NCT classes though, so it depends whether you already know lots of parents or not.

I'd just like to add, that I did go to uni (well, actually it was an Institute for higher education a year before I went), but I dropped out with one module to go. This seemed a good idea at the time, I keep meaning to do a module just to finish off the degree, but 10 years, and other qualifications later, I just can't really be arsed. I'm not a posh boy though, and I'll have a fist fight with anyone who says I am! :)-D

How have you got time on your hands, is he a good sleeper?

Shook me all night long, is a classic. That's about it for me.

Cheers Mark. Is it possible to see how an individual user (me) posts. I'd be interested to see how much I post now, compared to a year or 2 ago! Same for Mockney.

LadyM I never said we don't get on, just that I've stepped back from the forum a bit. New Class just meant a new group, like all the new freshers starting uni. No offence intended.

Sorry PGC, of course you and others, like Brendan should have been in that list. My point was, that most cliques don't set out to be cliques, but to a new poster, it must have come across as closeknit, and possibly scary.

Regarding cliques, I think there definitely were some. Not in a nasty, and exclusive way though. Basically, I am sure my name would be included in what some have described as the forum clique. I never wanted it to be that way, but the forum had it's time for me, when there were lots of posts in the Lounge from the lies of Moos, *bob*, me, Mockney, Sean, MikeP, Huguenot, Georgia, PollyD, Citizen, RosieH, Jah, Tillie, Chav(as was then), Quids, AnnaJ, Bignumber5, and even the likes of TLS. Later, a load of other people joined, like MickMac, LadyMuck, Woof, BBW, charliecharlie and so on joined in. For me, I had already met some lovely new friends, plus had the baby turning up, so I withdrew from the drinks a lot, and just don't bother posting so much (although I still read). It's nothing against any poster on here, I simply feel that I had my time on here, and there is a "new class" in here now, that I don't really feel so much a part of. A lot of the major postrs these days will have never met me at a drinks, whereas I used to be at most of them. Regarding the Drawing Room, I'm with Quids. There are some good threads, but there is a bit of a trying to hard, back slapping thing going on in there. I agree that some of those threads would have been great in the Lounge, and I also suspect that a few more people may have read the party political threads (I never bothered). Family Room can b great fun, although they can be scary in there too!

Went to one recentl at Bloomsbury Lanes, bowling, pool, kareoke booths (believe me, I thought this would be horrific, but get 15 blokes in there pissed up, and you'd be surprised how quickly you're singing Never Forget by Take That). Doesn't have to be a boozy day, but can be if you wish.

I think it's quite fun, and the opening scene last night was really creepy!

Part of the reason for that could be that they would have been killed for advertising that they were christian. Just because it took them a while to use it, doesn't mean that it had nothing to do with the crucifixion of Jesus. In fact, 300 years would have given them plenty of time to have "created the legend" so to speak, then the cross symbol would have been more powerful. I think this is an interesting idea for a thread, had never considered it before.

Indeed, and to David C, who shares his birthday with the cat. Hope you both had good times!

Oh dear Kev. Wanted him to win that, but even from the first round it looked like he could be rocked by the power.

Only just realised the Khan fight is live on ITV. Unfortunately I'm away, so can't even record it. Looking forward to Kevin Mitchell's fight, which I hope to watch in the hotel bar...