Keef

Seriously? So the state shouldn't be questioned then if that is how you feel. By the way, just want to say I'm not trying to fall out with you Mick, and am not picking on you. Just disagree on this one.

Quite right, although I imagine someone will come on and say "what about the victim's right to life?" or something equally irrelevant.

I'm not trying to be askward here, I'm genuinely having trouble with this. So, if it was the same man, in this country, you'd not want him executed? Or is it that you don't WANT him executed. But you're not overly bothered because of what he did? If it's the latter, I can see where you're coming from, but I still can't feel that it's right, so maybe I do have sympathy for him... I just know I think it's wrong in any country, in any circumstance.

HAL, interesting point on Sharia law, and you may well be right.

Sean said it Mick, you're either for or against. If you take the circumstances of the crime in to account in this case, then surely you'd do the same in any case, in which case you're not really against capital punishment for certain crimes.

But if I think all capital punishment is wrong (which I do), how can I not generalise? This case in particular... If the mental health thing is true, then that has to be taken in to account. The man's crimes were terrible, but if I decide that it is okay in this case, then why shouldn't it be okay in all cases? If the child's father gunned this man down, then by their law, he should also be executed. I know that morally he'd have more sympathy (by a million miles), but you either have it or you don't. For me, it's a no, whatever someone has done.

Probably not what you're after, but opposite Mornington Crescent Tube, there is a great little sandwich shop. Their chicken curry with mango chutney sandwiches are awesome!

Fairy Tale Of New York 12 days of xmas, just for drunken "5 GOOOOOOOLLLLLLDDDDDDDD RIIIIIIINNNNGGGSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!" Bit. Hark the Herald (with trumpet descant) First Noel Can't think of the name of the other one that I am always humming.

Mrs Keef is trying to get a referral, Baby is also having (unrelated I think) rashes come up very suddenly after having certain things. Rash then goes as suddenly as it came. Apparently she's too young to manage goats milk, so at the moment, it looks like we can't even give her formula, which is a pig.

Sorry Mick, but you are the one who has jumped from SA to UK and back, that is clouding the argument. I asked the question, because you say you have no sympathy with this man, whatever they do to him, I wanted to see if that stretched to torture, or just taking his head off then sticking him up on a pole, to deter other people from repeating his crimes (not that it stands even the slightest chance of convincing someone who would be willing to rape a child that maybe they shouldn't). Okay, I have said I think it is revenge, and I stand by that. If the father of the child had hunted this man down, and put a bullet in his head, I could actually understand that, and probably wouldn't be able to condemn the guy. If someone hurt my daughter, I honestly don't know what I'd do, but I can't put my hand on my heart and say I wouldn't want to kill them. So, there is no need for you to keep on pointing out just how nasty a crime was commited. I think what happened to that boy, and other boys, was every bit as horrid as you do. However, I still do not feel that a state, whatever state it may be, should be taking a person's life away, whatever the crime. You keep saying that you're against capital punishment, but then sound very much for it in this case, so which is it?

So, would you feel that way if they were going to torture him for a day before finishing him off? Serious question.

What bloody nonsense! It is not sympathetic, it is discomfort over ANY human being slaughtered by the state. LegalBeagle's last post was spot on IMO.

Or leave ED and come to see my band in The Hob, Forest Hill. Sorry Mr Ben for hijacking your shameless plug with a shameless plug.

I don't think anyone said it was the same thing. I actually made a point of saying they weren't.

Yeah I thought that was a bit out of the blue, especially as he quit playing for Wales ages ago.

To be fair to BBW, there have been loads of photos of drinks nights put up on here, all he had to do was go to one forumites' FB page, and it would have been very easy to find loads of other forumites. I admit, and have posted here previously, that I thought it was a bit weird, but to be honest, I don't think there has ever been any harm meant, I just question why BBW told peole so much, that is what made people unnearved. I have been pointed in the direction of forumites FB pages, by other forumites, so it is not exclusive to BBW whatever you think. I actually bump in to BBW around Sydenham/Forest Hill, and I think he's a nice lad. That is not to say for a second, that I support everything he's ever written on here, but I am starting to feel almost defensive of him, now that everyone is queueing up for a pop, when basically they have upset people on here in the past themselves. That doesn't appeal to my sense of fairness.

Are you going to bed smileys and call people m8?

Quids I know what you're saying, but I felt this thread was a bit dodgey when I first saw it this morning. I know it's not the same as race, but it doesn't take a huge leap, and as I said, it's the first thing thu sprung to my mind.

Thing is, for Louis to say that he'd be happy if they made it as presenters, surely just proves the point that they shouldn't be on x factor, which is meant to be about pop stars.

I was trying to point it out with my ugly people in the hairdressers comment. This thread is a bit off IMO. Yes I know people can lose weight, but still, the first thing that popped in to my head, was certain seats for black people on buses in some places in the past. I know it was started in a light hearted manner, but not a nice thread. Besides, if the fat people paid double, they'd still take up the same space, so you'd still be sat next to them, the money wouldn't change that.

Heard the chief exec of Majestic Wines on Radio 4 this morning. Sounded like a complete arse, with no understanding of anyhting other than "we're making loads of money".

This bloke will never be able to do that to another kid if he spent his life in prison. I say again, it is pure revenge.

Ugly people should pay double at the hairdressers too. It takes much longer to make them look half decent, and I keep seeing their relection in the mirror whilst I have my hair cut.

Actually David, I am not a member of any Union, because the likes of Unison are so watered down, they'd do nothing for me quite frankly. I did once get pushed by an over excited man on a pickett line (of 2 people), when I wasn't even an employee of the office in question. They may do good elsewhere, but in my years of public sector work, I've never really seen the likes of Unison do much at all. Unions are better when they support a specific work force. I am talking about unions based on experiences of other people I know. Anyway, there was no need for your sarcy tone in that response!

Lloyd seems a nice lad, but he is a shocking singer, and I was sure he'd go, but as Mrs Keef said, the type of person who'd fancy Jamie probably never watches the x-factor, whereas lots of teenaged girls will vote Lloyd. I think Jamie was great when he did that Christina Aguilera, and the Crying song a couple of weeks back, 2 of the best performances of the series from anyone. However, he did too many old cheesy rock songs, and I had a feeling he'd be in trouble this week. Fine, he's a rocker, but why didn't they choose more songs like his initial audition, with a bit of energy. The young lad (is it Joe?) has a good voice, but is just so dull. Danyl still doesn't do anything for me, although he obviously has talent. Olly is just cheesey. Stacey is still my choice, but needs a rocket up the arse, it's all a bit bland.