kford

And sean and co., councils really do see parking fines as revenue. They've been rumbled again and again, with scams such as paying incentives to PAs (Parking Attendants) and operating companies, like APCOA. You're naive to think that it's all about 'parking solutions'. I've worked with TfL who were secretly shocked at the cavalier behaviour of some local authorities regarding PCNs (although TfL seemed to operate their bus lane and Red Route patrols fairly). PAs in Kensington & Chelsea were even specially instructed to target BT vans, as BT employed someone especially to pay the fines; strangely, they warned the same PAs to leave Cable & Wireless/NTL vans alone. Bonkers.

Shit! That's appalling, and heavy-handed. Where are they when the gangs of youths climb aboard the back of the 36 bendy-bus, with no intention of swiping their card? She sounds like the perfect collar - female, non-confrontional, willing to pay eventually, without hassle or arrest or court. She should've driven.

On the subject of this particular thread, you're possibly right bn5 - but the general rants here are about the heavy-handed tactics employed by councils in their pursuit of fines to boost their coffers.

My figures were from last week: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7291810.stm The complaints are about the unfair victimisation of motorists who know the rules, but being human, occasionally make errors when parking yet are given draconian punishments way out of line with the 'crime'.

Sean, - read ratpack's email again. That's what it's like if you drive in London, even very occasionally, like I do. Even the most careful motorist will get caught out. You say you don't anymore, so you can't really comment. By the way, plenty of people 'forget' to pay their TfL fares without recompense - figures out last week suggest that fare-dodging accounts for a whopping ?52.3m lost in 2007, including ?6.4m on bloody bendy buses alone. Why not go after them? Fine them ?120, it's a more direct theft of money that would otherwise be used to expand transport in London. Oh, no, that would be too hard - these people are too hard to track down, not wearing number plates and being registered to DVLA and all that. And pounds is on the money, yet again. Money from council parking fines - TfL bus lane and Red Route patrols aside - fills a huge gap in the council's budget. It's easy money, taken from soft targets who pay without complaint, generally without the need for police or courts or restraint. Ker-ching.

A taste of things to come, when the Parking Tax kicks in. There's no excuse for parking in an operating bus lane, but most fines are for genuine mistakes like getting late back to the meter. After all, we all know the rules. Just to put it in context, someone on one of those 'Cops with Cameras' shows the other night got fined ?120 for driving without insurance, MOT and while disqualified. And they managed to assault the copper too. Fair, eh?

Take the plate off, or cover it.

And, important debate that it is, it has nothing directly to do with ED. Whereas my brown bin has ;-)

Yes - lived on the Camberwell New Road, so had to turn the TV up to hear them remarking about it.

It did hit Lycott - here is the damage: http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9890/3227663nv9.th.jpg

falcao Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sounds like it's now become a Has Bin. Oof! That's - ahem - rubbish. Thanks, Rolo, replacement on its way hopefully.

...looks like my neighbour's has too. It hasn't had much use lately, being winter and all that, but that surely wouldn't be a reason for taking it away. And it wasn't THAT windy last night. We're just off LL.

It's the wind/clouds channelling the noise down, I'm sure. It's not such a problem when it's cloudless, even in the summer when there are definitely more planes because of the holidays. Anyway, I miss Concorde at 1730 and 1845 every night.

I used to do that - they nicked the cover. True!

What is the point?! Keep your eye out for an old ET2/ET4 with suspiciously shiny, new round chrome mirrors, instead of the old standard plastic oval ones.

I've also received so-called 'ghost tickets': PCNs issued but not placed on the vehicle. The parking attendant (PA) spots you, say, dropping someone off on a single yellow (allowed, for up to 20 mins depending on the borough) then issues a ticket to your car, without placing it on the vehicle. PA then downloads their handheld machine's data back at base and the PCN enters the system, with a ?100 final demand arriving on your doormat a month later. Got off because I challenged it under the 'Offence didn't take place' rule and demanded photographic evidence. Let off because of a 'technicality' without apology. many friends have suffered this and just paid up in fear of not getting a successful appeal.

Bobby P and Owen G are spot-on. From my time in a CPZ, we received PCNs...: ...in the five minutes we were inside scratching the dates off the day pass (?15/book valid only for two years) to place on a relative's car ...because we left one wheel over the white line at the end of the CPZ (even though the other three wheels were in). ...and were clamped and removed because the permit disc fell from the screen while we were away on hols in hot summer of 2003 (in the plastic holder provided by Lambeth), causing the permit number (but not the expiry date) to be slightly obscured. ?280 to get the car back. ...on a buider's van in the time it took for him to carry his stuff to our door and before we could give him his vistor's pass. None were appealed successfully, despite witness statements and photos. This was not careless or inconsiderate parking, this was a council making money hand over fist. It's going on all over London. Be careful what you wish for.

Waiting for one on Hansler.

The cash cow idea is confirmed.

"They approach people who are not looking like they will attempt to kill them." So not the gang who regularly drop a plastic bag full of chicken boxes and bones and drinks cartons down our street, then?

An extra tax it is. Living near to a hight street is like living near to a railway line (or station) - you know there are going to problems when you move in, but also benefits. Can't have it all. I'll suffer the odd bad parking day gladly for the convenience of being able to walk to every shop I need.

I make that 79p for 2 hours' parking. Bargain! The car wash guys use it too, for clean cars awaiting the return of owners.

There's one behind Iceland.

It's the opposite in my street, full on Saturdays, quiet in the week. I'm just off LL too. So I'd be paying for a problem that doesn't exist in patrolled hours.

If they live in ED, lazy shoppers would have the same permit as you. You could bet that the CPZ on that side would extend all the way from the station to the Plough crossroads, on both sides of LL. That's how big they are in Lambeth. And the zone wouldn't apply on Saturdays, when, I'm sure you'll agree, it's at its busiest. A smaller zone would just push the problem up the road.