Saila

>some children may be diagnosed with ADHD or other behavioural 'disorders' when in fact there is an underlying medical issue. i heard a theory that adhd is 'possibly linked to poor sleep'. TVs in bedrooms, computer games, and/or just poor ability to sleep well for whatever reason. The resulting tired child was considered linked to adhd and that's why amphetamine (speed) analogues help so much with these behavioural problems. So... all they're doing to these kids is waking them up then they take sleeping tablets in the evening to help them sleep after taking speed. and the cycle continues. just a theory and a wild one at that - but no one else seems to understand why amphetamines actually calm 'adhd' children down....

Perhaps its a good idea not to discuss gf or routines etc on this forum. It always seems to get people's Backs up, whichever camp you're in. The number of posts and the number of ppl reading the thread clearly shows That's it's not limited to a small group of ppl. It will always be contraversial it seems. Personally if I see an unbalanced-gf thread, I'll feel It necessary to post cos if it means another mum out there goes and reads gf with an open mind and perhpas Doesn't get into a pickle with sleep associations, via feeding to sleep or whatever the problem is, that they feel they need to sort out/fix at a later date, then great. Anyway. Let's not fight Ps sorry for bad typos, using phone

- i'm relieved you're saying that's a total misrepresentation of what you meant. What did you mean then when you said GF was child abuse? it stayed with me - so i'm happy to know you didn't meant that

I felt offended by the tone of this thread when it went 'off topic'. and I'm know of a few others less ready to stick their necks out who agree. However, I think it's fair to 'debate' the pros and cons of various ideas and approaches to parenthood. But so often ppl say things like 'I haven't read her book, but..' which is slightly irritating when they then pass judgement. Perhaps its a valid point to highlight she hasn't given birth, but arguably neither have you otta. Unless I'm mistaken, it was you otta that said following gf routine was child abuse? Or was that 'quids'? I found that deeply offensive and upsetting. Edit to say: please please don't use the 'experts aren't experts unless they've been through it' argument. Does that Mean cancer specialists or therapists can't do their jobs... Etc?

But why are you blaming GF for their approach that you disapprove of? She explicitly says always feed a hungry baby. I've always been baffled by how judgemental mums are of other mums. The divisions are depressing. These sorts of threads just throw up an 'us and them' attitude. Shouldn't we be supporting other mums and not putting them down, or their choices down, cos it differs to yours? The reason I posted on this thread was to try and bring some balance and put forward the other side of using a routine, cos a lot of mums use this approach and I'm sure feel a bit saddened by some of the comments written on this thread/forum. I remember when I was on maternity leave, hormonal and depressed after a bad birth and a tough time bf due to my son being in special care, and I read about a group meeting 'for non-gf mums'. I had no idea this sort of thing went on. It really threw me. Very sad.

P.s. In terms of 'sad cos of mums are not feeding a baby when they are hungry'. In the 7-7 routine and baby whisperer, the babies are fed as soon as they wake up. I think the idea here is to avoid sleep associations. So by getting in a routine of waking then feeding, you avoid some problems that some parents have in terms of feeding to sleep etc. If they get hungry, they'd wake, and you'd feed them. You can't not feed a hungry baby - it's impossible, surely? They go nuts when they're hungry.... Mine did anyway, as I do :)

i do remember she runs through examples of various problems people had at the back of the book (hence page 134 in your reference)? i assume that's where you found that CC quote. Her routines and the advice she gives in the book doesn't talk about CC or the need for it. I absolutely left my son for the 5 mins she talks about in the 7am-7pm routine which she outlines in the main section of her book, and if he was tired, he never cried more than a max of 5. If he cried for 5 mins it was because there was something wrong - i.e. cold or he'd got himself in a funny position etc. The case studies at the back of the book were useful cos they gave examples of different approaches to different issues ppl had with different babies. I think that was the only reference to cc in the whole book. I think lots of mums do resort to cc to get through some tricky sleep issues - that's their choice. I'm lucky that i never had to do that as it sounds hard work for everyone involved. Not sure i'd criticise them of their choice however. again - the GF 7am-7pm does not involve cc in anyway more than the 5 mins i've mentioned which is in plenty of mum help books. anyway - ppl have very strong opinions about this - not sure why - for those who dont wanna follow a routine, then fine. No one's asking you to do it, it's just a choice you made differently to other mums.

I keep getting the impression a lot of criticism of GF is from those who've not read her book 'Contented Little Baby' I dont know about anyone else, but when my baby son was hungry, i had about 3 seconds to somehow get a breast/bottle in him or the world would end. I can't imagine not feeding a hungry baby - his cry was an unbearable, urgent cry. I think perhaps there's confusion with a strict sleep regime imposed back in the 1940s. I dont know what it was called but it involved ignoring hungry babies. Quite shocking in retrospect. And possibly why (on this forum) following the 7am-7pm routine was called 'child abuse' by someone. I'm not sure that's what other mums need to hear, even if that's what you think. Also lots of confusion about controlled crying. In the CLB, GF advises to leave a baby for max of 5 mins to try and settle themsevles and if they dont to go back to the baby - very similar to baby whisperer. no one is forcing mums to read her book. If some people dont like her, then that's fine. but leave others to make their own minds up. In terms of marketing. I think GF has a terrible reputation (which i'm still confused by). The reason that her book sells is cos it works for lots of people. Success, and word of mouth sell that book, certinaly not marketing - her reputation is awful

that wasn't meant to come across as smug. Sorry if it did. I found GF really helpful. I didn't pick up a book (as thousands dont) until well after i personally stopped bf. From my memory - i struggled to adapt her routines to formula as her book just described bf routines and not formula feeding routines so i'm confused by the link to bf rates. Moreover, bf has been on the rise since her book came out? i posted partly cos i think this thread has turned into what seems to me like a one-sided-slagging match and partly cos she has helped me and thousands of others. Whatever you say aobut her and her book, she's helped a LOT of women get through a tough few months.

good on GF for all she's done for thousands of new mums out there. I'm a mum but i knew fk all about babies and found her book a god-send. Our son has slept like a dream and i put a lot of that down to her very sensible sound advice to a new mum, in the early days (me). Thank god i'm not up all night, like many i know even into toddler age. Good for her - she's a successful woman and as it's 'women's day' the other day - here's to you Gina - have a glass on me and the thousands who you've helped/saved. :)

any update on how he is?

does anyone have an update on how he is?

>"It is a pity there isn't like a Rent-A-Cat service where you could hire a really good mouser for a few weeks." i'd lend you mine. he was great in his prime. These days he goes to bed before i do... the last mouse he caught he dropped in my mother in laws handbag while she was screaming from the sofa.. useless

big vote for g.i.n.a.f.o.r.d and knowing when to draw the line with breastfeeding attempts plus ignore pressure from other mums in whatever department (bf, sleep, weaning) happy mum = happy baby oh - and ask for an epidural at the very beginning - you may not 'want' it but if you change your mind halfway through it'll be much tougher to get it later on.... from the school of 'mum-made-easy' *hides*

we've had this - it lingers for 3 or so days it's less agressive than noro and the kids seem to snap back to normal and then digress none of the adults got it in our nannyshare also morphs into upset tummy and smelly nappies after the sickness stops appetite goes for about a week you get a good warning they're about to be sick (again - unlike noro which gets you out of the blue) so plenty of time to gently wander over to that tiled floored area.... good luck x

i like her. i think she's open and honest about her choices and family life. good on her to work hard and find time to start a business etc - it's inspiring to me anyway. if she thinks she's made mistakes, then fine. dont we all make mistakes? i think she sounds like a great mum and a great role model for her kids (espeically the girls!)

my sister has four kids under 5 she was told a tip that saved her life... apparenlty there are a lot of nannies/extra helpers out there who are looking for a little extra cash she hires someone to come in every day for 1.5 hours during 'rush hour' (6pm-730pm) to be that extra pair of hands when you're paying ?8/hour or whatever, it's a small price to pay for the short term relief it gives good advice i thought

sell milo - buy a small 3 bed in west dulwich or posh peckham and spend the 100k change on private school fees. You'll prob wanna leave london by the time secondary comes along.... no catchment area bollox to worry about :)

a zoomed in version http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=marsden+road,+se15&hl=en&sll=51.496048,-0.195167&sspn=0.082611,0.181103&hnear=Marsden+Rd,+London+SE15+4EE,+United+Kingdom&t=m&layer=c&cbll=51.463749,-0.074894&panoid=rFSJBlnTQyBsAB7rOvObwQ&cbp=12,295.3,,2,-23.71&z=16

not sure if this link will work - but did it look like this? http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=marsden+road,+se15&hl=en&ll=51.463749,-0.074894&spn=0.000027,0.022724&sll=51.496048,-0.195167&sspn=0.082611,0.181103&hnear=Marsden+Rd,+London+SE15+4EE,+United+Kingdom&t=m&layer=c&cbll=51.463749,-0.074894&panoid=rFSJBlnTQyBsAB7rOvObwQ&cbp=12,326.15,,0,-26.55&z=16

did you see it ontop of the street lamppost by any chance?

if you think about it - it's practically impossible to park near public toilets these days always way too central with red routes etc another reason to have only female taxi drivers in my view :) this would never happen under female rule

Atticus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Makes zero sense, even to 1.5 year old olds... the > modern day magic roundabout honey - he's 2 years old.

benmorg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The central bottle looks a lot darker to me and > suggest blood in the urine. The white residue in > the others might be proteinuria, which is a bad > sign too. I think the driver should pay a visit to > his GP. pls can you stick a post it note on the bottles saying this? you might be doing them a big favour...

Is there a squat near by? Or a house with no running water? That would make sense. I've been into squats that had rooms which used to be bathrooms but were completely empty... No loo. No running water... That's my guess