downsouth

It doesn't make any sense to pedestrianise LL. Traffic is simply diverted elsewhere in greater concentration. I'd be in favour of the Northcross Road option up to Blue Mountain. The crossing at Somerfields is a good idea as that stretch is very wide and hard to see as it is on a bend with lots of parked cars.

Well the tram to Peckham could perhaps extend down Lordship Lane one day. Then there would be less cars on that road and a viable alternative to driving.

Worlds End, Chelsea; Locks Bottom; Theydon Bois or fictionally Royston Vasey

be a plumber.

I'd...

Clapham.

'fraid I'm not of that age hence my dismissal of those anachronisms. But yes, she's always beside me, I never leave home without her.

I too am not fond of some Americanisms - garbage, sidewalk - and spellings. However I won't be returning to driving in my automobile, or listening to the gramophone or even listening to the wireless.

you are correct on this occasion. macroban Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Someone else - downsouth - told me my geography > was lacking, but I'm under the impression that > East Dulwich remains in the same place.

Have to agree I like most of Camberwell. It does have some less salubrious parts which I used to naviagte as a youngster.

In the whole of Dulwich (Village, East and West) six of the nine coucillors are blue. http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/267/slide1zu7.th.jpg Lambeth (left) Southwark (right) The blue numbers are 21 Village, 5 College, 19 Thurlow Park and 7 Gipsy Hill wards. The yellow 6 is East Dulwich ward.

Far left - Dulwich - I think you've got the wrong area.

I've always said train and always will. Not that fussed about its origins. Language moves on. It is the green-eyed monster, which doth mock The meat it feeds on. That cuckold lives in bliss Who, certain of his fate, loves not his wronger; But O, what damned minutes tells he o'er Who dotes, yet doubts--suspects, yet strongly loves! Nero Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > BTW, it's 'railway station'. 'Train station' is an > Americanism and it sounds awful. I even see it on > BBC websites, but there you go. Nero

Without trying to sound coarse, it's up to local politicians to deal with such things. If you vote some shades of the political spectrum you then get the resulting social experiments. Compassion is good but there is a balance between state responsibility and that of the individual.

Unbelievably so. Cypriots first - religious afetrwards and the funny thing is, for Cyprus at any rate, neither side are terribly devout. Brendan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don?t really want to get involved in this but > just want to comment the following. As someone who > has visited both Greece and Turkey, as I?m sure > many others have. It is glaringly noticeable how > similar their cultures really are. Except for that > one all important factor, religion.

More like market is becoming a bit choosy now that properties are on the market a bit longer. "Uninterrupted views of the station platform, very handy for seeing when your delayed train is approaching. Also, direct access to your own stretch of platform"

Not read the book - but impressed with the film.

Fish - I don't disagree with what you say but it's not as easy as saying 'the Ottomans ruled for 300 years' ergo it was a Turkish country, it wasn't. Empires as re formed by ruling over the dispossed but it can never last - even Rome toppled. I'm sure you know that the Ottomans weren't the best colonial masters (Armenia, Cyprus to name a few massacres) and had built up a boiling cauldron's worth of animosity on the island. So once again, it aint that simple. It's not turks are bad greeks good or the other way round but instead aint this planet *hit, we all **** up sometimes, but we've all got to share it? I am optimistic about the North's prospects provided Sarkozy and the Austrians don't get their way - which is looking less likely with admission of the new Europe brigade.

Like I said a complicated history. You've just promoted one side of it. When the republic of greece was formed many turks and greeks were expelled to the other side of the new border. Attrocities were conducted by both sides. When Turkey went in it was because it had the interests of the ethnic/cultural turks. It set up a defence border when the Greek military junta attempted a coup following internecine attacks between the communities. in other words turkey did not attack. Both sides however were culpable but unfortunatley in the UK we all sing from the same hymn sheet. The irony however is that the Turkish Cypriots are somewhat like the Kurds in that they do not wish to be ruled by the Greeks - yet in this instance it is wrong... So, why should the withdraw if it will lead to more ethnic cleansing - hasn't there been enough already?

Yes premptive strikes are not the way to go. Diplomacy first is important. To be honest I don't think I am that far away from your view point but your take on turkey seems to me to be overly simplistic. Whereas our involvement in the region is quite frankly brazen, Turkey's is much more nuanced than you appear to give credit. And before you say it I am not an apologist but I do find it trying when armchair generals/politicians (of which we are all guilty at times) think they know best especially from 1,000 miles away. There are so many stories we don't hear every day yet if it is negative we most certainly will. I'd rather Turkey were on our side and inflenced by us through example and agreement.

It's been converted into flats last time I saw - seven if my quick glance was accurate.

Without going into a tete a tete, the points where I perceived you to question Turkey's candidacy were "corruption riddled, underperforming economy, an interfering military with a penchant for torture and extra-judicial execution, and armenian-holocaust denial" not its religion and again I think that some of those criticisms bar the last one can be used against a number of the newer entrants - Romania and Bulgaria being perhaps the worst offenders. I don't quite follow your argument on the Bush and the cartoons. Perhaps I am having a slow day. Turkey's activities ont he border actually have a purpose as there is a longstanding desire by the Kurds not living in Kurdistan ie. northern Iraq and south east Turkey to break away from those countries to form a larger gretaer Kurdistan. it is obviosuly not a simple black and white issue but I feel that we win the West (self defininig liberals at any rate) are quick to denounce the actions of foreign governments when dealing with terrorists or other 'dissidents'. As you say our hands are not exactly unbloody.

Not to accuse him of being a one trick pony, but the lustre has come away from the QT franchise of late. It would be nice to see him do subtle.

I agree with your assessment of Miliband the much touted rival to Brown and now future favourite for the top job. He does seem to oscillate between views and ideas that often are contradictory of themselves or more suited to a laboratory and not the real world. In terms of Turkey it has as much right/pedigree to join the EU as the other candidate countries - a point I think you acknowledge in some of those new members who were unsuitably prepared for membership. As you say there was a reason for those countries but again there is for Turkey. The economic advantages and the emphasis on free trade i.e. Europe Lite are compelling propositions. Turkey will , if it does join, provide the engine for growth in the EU for decades to come. it will also bring Turkey and Greece closer together which is as good an outcome as Germany and France being brought together - the rasion d'etre of The Treaty of Rome.

I agree with you on most points but on Turkey I think your analysis is out. Notwithstanding a move to more religious parties (similar to Christian Democrats in Germany and other parts of Europe) Turkey is advancing and developing and has a modern economy. You might want to see Palin's New Europe programme as much of this was highlighted/pretty evident. http://www.bbc.co.uk/palin/about.shtml#2