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What's that got to do with anything?! My Mum has, my Mums friends have, my friends have, and I've been a babysitter! So what's your point? There's nothing wrong with offering more dosh to do some extra bits, when I was a teen I probably would have said yes to that but definitely no to ironing. BUT it does seem your trying to prove a point.

Jeez woman of dulwich, what an attitude! So what if it's an 'easy night watching TV', they are still watching your child and doing you a favour! I personally would prefer it if it was an easy night for the babysitter who would most probably be a teen trying to get a little pocket money. They've got their whole lives ahead of them to be exploited by employers! Are you trying to prove a point or something? because if so you need to pick your battles.

Do people still wear gold (in general) ;-) My advice is be sensible whichever country you go to! It is a very touristy destination now so be mindful of other travellers! but Thai people are really lovely

Aaw that's so great. Well done!

Thailand is a year round holiday season, nothing shuts down. I went in the monsoon season and it was fine. Nice in fact! Wouldn't recommend Phuket, there are many more beautiful beaches in Thailand. I loved Ko Tao and Phi Phi though this was 11 years ago so maybe get some more recent recommendations.

Don't book a package and maybe book the first night or two in Bangkok beforehand so you don't have to find accomodation after such a long flight. But otherwise you will be fine. There's so many places to stay, Thailand is the easiest country to travel around and is very cheap.

I'm sure you are right however I also think as parents you feel more scared at the prospect of schools than the actual children and forget how much of a major role you also play in your childs outcome/education. I know my Mum was really anxious about my brother going to secondary school as it was a new academy with not a lot to go on. But he's doing fine and given my Mum I know he'ld do well anyway no matter what. I love the pub idea! Your children will definitely learn a thing or two about life there!

Mark Dodds Wrote: > On the interesting question of would I want my > boy/s to go to Dulwich College (or Eton for that > matter) based on the proposition of being able to > afford it, the answer is 'no' definitely not - > just as vehemently as 'no, definitely not' is the > way we feel about the place at a faith school. I'm absolutely with you there. Couldn't think of anything worse!

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Of course services should be delivered well. But are the arguments here that you didn't get a school you originally wanted and you're a bit peeved with the randomness of the system, or that you're genuinely concerned that the schools given to you are really bad? And surely if schools have been turned around with local support then what makes a crap school is questionable and can be changed and that the solution doesn't only lay with creating another school. From what I understand the schools are pretty good around this way but there are a few that are over subscribed, so some parents are having to take a chance with schools that may not have quite built up a really good reputation for themselves. I'm sorry this doesn't sound very 'appalling' to me and it doesn't mean they're being failed by the system.

And I do not believe education should be seen as a product, nor any other public service. So to view it like that saddens me- yes I understand what point you're trying to get across- that we contribute through our taxes to education so technically it's not free- BUT to liken education or any public service as a product disturbs me. 'Those weaker than us?' Why is the mother of 5 working in Tesco weaker than you? Not having money doesn't make you weaker, it makes you stronger. Being a mother of 5 makes you stronger, not weaker, and doing a menial job to stay afloat definitely makes you stronger, not weaker. Believe me she will find the time and energy to try to get a good deal for her chidren because she loves her children and wants them to get a good education. She will have to work harder than Mark or his friends mind you, because she doesn't have the money to buy priviledges for herself or her children. And she's fine with that. What she doesn't need is for you speaking up for her and supposedly understanding her needs. It is in the words that you choose to use that disturbs me- your overall argument I get but it is steeped in language that makes me very suspicious of your deep down beliefs.

OH MY GOD new mother!!!!!!!!!! seriously!!!!!!!... ''appalling' treatment'- this isn't appalling treatment, this is the way it has to be now. I'm actually lost for words except to say I think mumsnet is more suited to you so you can congratulate yourself for being middle class and having money, and being better parents who only want the best for your children, scaring eachother into believing that everyone is intent on taking your privildeges from you and that you're being punished having to pay for the education of the masses whose taxes are going where exactly? the exact same place where yours are going! I mean what is the point in being wealthy and mc if you can't continously be pushed to the top of the list and get everything that you want?! And the cuts you talk of will hit the poorest people the hardest.

Well that depends on your definition of a 'poor school' doesn't it..? ;-) Why should anyone have to send their children to a 'poor school.' Every involved, caring parent, NO MATTER WHAT CLASS- yes surprise surprise working class parents want their children to have a good education too! in fact just as much as middle class parents!!!! (shock horror), do not necessarily want to send their children to a poor school! BUT how can you make that school better. By mixing in people who are motivated and want to learn. A good head certainly helps too of course and great leadership. But if everyone is rubbishing them and not getting behind them then it's hard to create a school community- morale would be extremely low.

Mike Dodds your use of the term 'high school' has me wondering where you are from if you don't mind me asking? It's not a judgenment I'm just interested in how the two countries compare... @ Msgee- Thanks! I grew up around Hackney and exactly the same thing happened in Stoke Newington that has happened in Dulwich. I genuinely do think it's the fairest way.

Squ1rr3l Wrote: > Be wary of gumtree, but in most cases it's just > use common sense with keeping safe. If something > seems too good to be true, it is. Absolutely! Best advice you can take when it comes to gunmtree

Being punished new mother!!!!!! are you actually serious!!! get a grip, the world isn't punishing you! The system had to be changed because of the m/c who ended up 'punishing' (your word not mine) the actual locals who've lived in the area all of their lives. do you honestly think THAT is fair?! And I think ALL people want a decent education and a decent NHS- not just the middle class!!!! Lord help me. The reason why I want out of this country is because of our ridiculous class system with people ho have ridiculous attitudes like yours. It has nothing to do with the education sytem!

Alright please stop shouting with your capital letters! Your situation is pretty ridiculous. I'm athiest too as is my Mum and she wouldn't have been happy sending me to a Roman Catholic School. BUT the other examples you gave are not: co-ed, distnace etc isn't that big of a deal what is your idea of a rational system given that the seemingingly rational system was monopolised by the wealthy? what is your proposition?

Check out Moveflat on the net for whole properties to let direct from landlords. Also, have used Bushells before and they seemed ok. I think they asked for less up front than some other estate agents on LL.

womanofdulwich Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > best one is a babysitter who will do your ironing > at the same time.......... Then you should definitely be paying them ?10 per hour!

Mark Dodds Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > When our children were born we decided NOT to move > out of London, along with a cohort of friends who > all decided that we'd not run to the Home Counties > or abroad and stay and work through the challenges > of inner city living. What do you want, a medal? I'm sorry, whilst I have sympathy in the general situation of this, I'm finding it hard to sympathise with you. I already made a proposion, embrace what you've been given, give it a chance, and get behind the school. I'd also like to add that a little bit of distance isn't that bad. I lived a half hour walk away from my secondary school and walked to school every day with friends I'd made who lived along the journey. It was far better than the exercise I got at school and I made some great friendships! Also, with involved, good parents, which school you go to is not the be all and end all unless your child needs more provisions due to a disability or learning difficulties etc.

Spot on EDmummy. So Mark Dodds, you think you can do a better job than all of those schools you think do not meet the needs of your children? Isn't that a little arrogant? Maybe those schools need you to get behind them and improve what we already have. Afterall, I'm sorry but the system had to become more complex because m/c parents used their money to move into areas that had good schools, ending up monopolising them so the system had to change and although seemingly a lot more random, is actually still fairer than just taking distance into consideration.

Cleaning is much harder than babyitting a sleeping child. I've done lots of babysitting in the past as a teen. Was paid around ?5 per hour for it-was awhile ago now though! I'd say probably around ?7 per hour sounds about right. And ?10 per hour for cleaning sounds about right. Nannys/childminders are different to babysitters.

All help, especially international aid. There are massive food shortages across the country. All factories are/were in the North. Even in Tokyo there's hardly any food left and no I'm not exaggerating I have friends in Japan. What has happened is a huge international disaster, but somehow I'm not feeling that the international community aren't responding quite as generously/kindly as they usually do. Especially given the number of casaulties. And people seem more interested in looking after themselves by pulling their money out out of Japanese businesses. There have even been some nasty comments such as one I read about about from some anti-whaling people saying somehow this is some kind of retribution or something. Appalling and utterly disgusting. I can tell you now if we ever had a natural disaster so big and awful Japan would absolutely 100% help us out.

Me too MikeLK. Am not very happy with the lack of support the international community seems to be giving to Japn. They might be a rich country but they need our help and we should be rushing to give it.

Well says an awful lot about the counsellor who is supposed to represent ALL of Dulwich!