cuppa tea

Why are you asking to meet 'mums' at all? Why not meet people without children who are definitely not going to talk about parenthood?

No we're not the same person. Why does it look odd? Now i'm confused!! I was just expressing an opinion on the original post. Really don't see why you think we're the same person!

"The chasm between young and old is unforgivable. As I wrote in my dissertation on ASBOs when upping punitive punishment was seen, as usual, to be the answer: ?Adolescents are not hooded monsters who naturally seek to intimidate or harass. They are young people with energy and time but little experience. Adults are people with lots of experience, but little energy and time. Somewhere a swap needs to take place.?" We lock old people up in homes and children up all day in schools. They are a huge part of a community and they are not available for most of the time. Who are the young people supposed to learn from? Their own peer group who are also still struggling to learn? Punitive punishment doesn't work. Society has been using it for years and we are still having the same problems. Lack of discipline is always blamed. It's not that simple. Children need to be engaged with.

Yes it is all about the parenting. And schools. And the disintegration of community. If parenting is the most important job we can do, then how come it is valued the least? Shunting kids to an after school club or having a posh school building is not particularly something to offer.

Brilliant OP. Thank you.

@ Beany - the mad crazy tantrum stage does pass, but some kids are definitely harder work than others and seem to have more need to be in control. Sounds like she's really wanting to explore. Can you find similar actions for her to do, rather than the dangerous stuff? eg. my second has spent ages putting a blunt pencil into a (safe style) pencil sharpener. He also has his own cupboard in the kitchen with lots of bit and pieces in that he can empty. I change what's in there to keep it interesting for him. Somtimes I put him on a chair at the sink to play in the water when I am washing up. Takes ages then obviously, but keeps him occupied and happy. Or dried pasta in a metal pan with a big spoon. It does buy you some time. Basically if you can work out a safe way to say "yes" to them you can often avoid a tantrum. I have got alot better at this second time round. I think with 1st children it's just a such a shock to how much they change your life and that you can't go to the loo on your own any more. But taking them to the toilet is much quicker than dealing with the ensuing tantrum if you don't! My 1st is very spirited. While hard work for you, it's a positive thing for them. Bundles and bundles of energy...how great is that! I think from what I can make out it is personality driven. I have found that seeing these personality traits in a positive and more long-term way helps. As an adult being assertive, energetic, driven, motivated and determined are all really good things to be...not perceived to be so in children, weirdly. They probably can sense when you're not confident. I am not as confident with my eldest and he does pick up on it. But they are trailing the way and I'm not sure there is much you can do about it. It's a learning curve for us. Looking at the earlier posts, I think it's ok to sometimes cry in front of your kids. It shows them you are human and that there is nothing wrong with crying...which there isn't.

Why is it worse when you are out and about? Do you have more expectations on her to be 'well-behaved'? I find with my challenging 4 yr old that when I am under pressure and stressed because I care about being perceived to be a good mother (whatever that is!), that he picks up on my tension and then neither of us handle tricky situations well. Personally I would give yourself a break and find places and people that help you to feel more relaxed and that give your daughter freedom and space. I would imagine she's just being a little kid, in her own world and with her own agenda. Separating your daughter's behaviour from your parenting can help keep things less stressful...very hard to do I know!

mima08 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I did not think I was spoiling him - > but you get comments etc and then start to doubt > yourself.... I am still learning the hard way that voicing my worries to the wrong person leads to lots of unwanted advice!

I don't think it's possible to 'spoil' a 6 months old baby. You're responding to his needs. I wouldn't question it. He is communicating with you and you are sorting it out for him. This level of high need he's asking for won't last. Perhaps he's about to go through a new development stage and needs more security than usual. I remember my first child becoming very needy before he sat up, crawled or walked. As soon as he could do any of these major physical things he was very happy about it. I guess he could also have some teeth due and it's causing him to be clingier than usual? It could also partially be personality. I haven't noticed any high need behaviour with my second child and I've done the same things with both more or less. They are just all different, though I would imagine most babies go through needy stages....how can you be a baby and not be needy? You can give a baby too much stimulation. If he's a sensitive one he may need less activities and liveliness and not necessarily more. You could experiment with more calming things like water play/baths, massage, tactile play etc. If I could have the time again I would spend ALOT less time worrying about what I was doing wrong and enjoy the time with my baby more...in the moment.

Fuschia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Silly thing is, I doubt very much whether the > peoPle concerned would be so sharp in tone > speaking to others in real life! Thank god! At least people's venom is contained to the virtual world...otherwise it would be chaos on the street of East Dulwich. Forums do tempt people to get on their soap-boxes - I know it does this to me! It's good to have a debate, but I admit I don't like it when it gets nasty.

Thanks for that Renata. I guess it makes sense, otherwise I would imagine plenty of people would want to put their kids back a year and it would cause chaos. Shame though. The boys just seem so much younger in general.

Saffron Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > But then again, would just like also to offer > anectodal experience from the opposite point of > view: My friend's steiner-educated daughter who > started formal education later now has massive > problems with reading. How old is your friends daughter our of interest? What sort of massive problems? Is this in comparison to regularly schooled children? Not an inquisition, just really curious and seem to be gaining a real interest in education as my son is about to start school and I'm thinking of trying to defer the place. He does seem emotionally very young for the formalities of school...especially compared to the girls in his year, who seem about 2 years more mature to me!

buggie Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > Just out of interest, if carrying bubs on your > back, what do you do bag wise?! Yes, this is the main problem with slinging...all the bloody stuff that you have to carry with a baby, not to mention if you have 2 kids. With the 2 of them I tend to be slinging and also pushing a buggy with nothing but a bag in it! Or for shorter trips an over the shoulder bag.

Actually, jokes aside, I really struggle talking to people in sunglasses! It totally freaks me out not to be able to see someone's eyes. It doesn't help communication that's for sure.

Yes a ring sling would be good for that then.

I found ring slings only really useful for short amounts of time. They are great with a toddler for the ease of getting them in and out, up and down. Over a longer time they really can ache your shoulders/back and not as good for your posture. Personally I have a napsack baby sling and it is supremely comfortable...though I wear the baby on my back. http://napsackbaby.com/ Really wide comfy straps and pretty easy to put on, or at least a smallish learning curve. Not as good for newborns, but great for older/bigger babies. Pricey, but worth it.

Yes, I am probably reading into it...it is a pretty mild observation in the blog isn't it? There are campaigns to try and get manufacturers to make all buggies parent facing though. I just find this a bit extreme...there are so many other things more worthy to spend time campaigning about in the world of childcare and parenting.

I think it's lovely to use slings. I have used them loads and carried my first until he was 18 months on and off. My second child less so, probably as I am older and a bit more decrepid! But I don't think buggies are the evil things that some people portray them to be. If you spend 1 to 1 with your child through out the day you are going to be communicating with them a huge amount. I think the critisisms of forward facing buggies are a bit paranoid. Probably another thing to make mothers feel guilty about and a way to get us to spend more money on a new souped up buggy. Also to carry your baby around all the time takes an awful lot of strength and is very tiring...it's not reasonable to expect it now that we all live in nuclear families rather than tribes. I don't have a sister/mother/friend who can carry my babies for me and lighten the load. It's not an ideal world and my back gets sore. Parents/poor daycare that are not interested in talking to children are probably where the problems lie....and what you can do about that I have no idea!

Oh ok you've sorted the fancy toothbrush motivation thing! ;-) Crossed posts.

My 4 year old has probably only let us brush his teeth about twice since he started at age 18 months. Unless we pin him down and force his mouth open, (we haven't!) it's not going to happen....but I am assuming that the psychological damage of doing this would be worse than having a filling! We bought him an electric toothbrush, which kept his interest in doing it himself and also it seems to clean them even if he just sticks it in his mouth and swishes it around a bit. Personally I would let your daughter do it herself, especially if she's doing a good job of it. She's obviously feeling independent enough and that's important to her. Regular dental check ups should help stop your worries.

Bummer!

Renata Hamvas Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just to clarify on the rules on this, if your > child is 4 before the 1st September, ie due to > start school this September, their entry can be > deferred to the term after their 5th birthday. You > can't, however, defer to September 2012 if you > child has a summer birthday as this means they > lose their allocated place at primary and are > starting with a different school year (You would > have to reapply for primary schools). Probably the > latest reasonable time to start would be the start > of Easter term for spring-summer birthday > children. You need to inform the school that your > child will have a deferred entry so that their > place is held. Remember also, if you defer, as > well as missing learning to read/write with the > rest of their class, they will be missing out on > the early social interaction with the peers they > will be spending their primary years with. > Renata Yes I understand this. What I did want to know was if I don't put my 4 year old in school this September and re-apply for a school place...which year will they put him in? Will he go into reception? Or will he go into the year that matches his age?

Yes I had this. Especially with car/train/tube journeys. I think it's fairly common. Mine seemed to be related to reflux and found Gaviscon relieved the nausea a little bit. Horrid. I sympathise.

DJKillaQueen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But as a percentage of all people that drink > alcohol there are less alcoholics. Look at the > percentage of heroin users that are addicts and is > going to be higher, mainly because of the > psysiological addictive nature of the drug....all > the data, stats and medical evidence support that > (although I acknowledge that some heroin use is > going to be hidden because of the illegal aspect). > And it's an important distinction to make when > considering issues of legalisation or control. > This is an interesting spin on experiments of how addiction effects rats. Science is never black and white and neither is addiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

BB100 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There can be a lot of advantages to deferring a > school place. The adult-child ratio in preschools > and nurseries are much better and so a child can > receive much more attention than in a Reception > class. The resources and activities provided tend > also be more varied and less formal, the day can > be much more interesting for the children and > there tends to be more freedom. Of course, that > does depend on what nursery and also what > Reception class but I've spent a lot of time in > many different Reception and nursery classes and > the children always seem much happier in nursery > than in Reception. Thanks for this. My gut instinct is to postpone school as long as possible. It's the freedom aspect that I am most concerned about really. To lose all that freedom at 4 is just too soon. The 'play' that they do in reception doesn't seem to be free play to me...it's pretty contrived.