Curmudgeon

you know that midwives used to keep a sharp fingernail that they'd slip under the tongue to release any tongue ties - it's a rather common thing of course I'm not advocating that treatment I just found it interesting

I like living here - I like the places and the people - I like saying good morning to total strangers and I appreciate the community feel I don't understand why people who don't like living here don't just move? I liked it here even when the schools quoted were in special measures

I would suggest a good look through their website to get an idea of the type of 'education' children at this school will receive. Look at the curriculum page and the individual subjects that incorporates phrases such as Science "The student learns basic concepts and principles that are expanded throughout all levels and how these principles apply to God?s physical Creation and to everyday life." and also the blog - interesting links on that blog - http://www.newhopechristianschool.org.uk/blog.php - "he has some interesting information to share about ?The New World Order? being set up by the Governments of this World in these last days under the very noses of the people for example, enacting laws like Gay marriage ?against? the will of the majority of the people." So it seems for 1800 - 2600 a term you can have a 'unique' education for your child.

Huge difference between a "faith school" and an evangelical, creationist mission tbh But it's your decision whether you want to bring your kids up divorced from society, why don't you go and visit it?

If you saw them do it why didn't you say something? If you didn't see them do it how do you know it was them?

get rid of the cats and changing child-minder is a bit of a no-brainer isn't it? Your child has a medical condition and allergies are not fun. Try a programme of steam cleaning the house to shorten the amount of time allergens are around.

yes yes shouting and screaming is the obvious and only way to have fun isn't it? :-S

Crystal Palace run good gymnastics classes Charisma gymnastics is a proper gymnastics club run from Dulwich College on a Saturday morning, - long waiting list though

if it helps a 2 year old will eat approximately 10 tablespoons worth of food a day, this is averaged over about a week to 10 days and include all and any snacks. It's not really much. I think we judge weaning and small children by our 3 meals a day philosophy and it normally just doesn't ring true. In general children eat one, what we would consider, proper meal in 48 hours - so one day they'll have a decent lunch and then not again for a couple of days and then we think we've got problems. Offer food and if he doesn't eat it do not get concerned, he won't starve as he is eating - maybe he's a once a day child and just needs a little snack

go abroad (but not sandy beach) - Italy is nice invite the people you really want because it's abroad so far to come those that really want to be there will make the effort - those that don't won't because it's abroad costs less as well and you get fabulous food (we got married in Florence - was gorgeous and perfect)

You can park in the further away car park where there is always ample room, pick up a trolley from their trolley bays and stroll over to the entrance I think if parent and child bays were positioned at the back of the carpark there would be far more availability.

I like the look of Kingsdale and liked my chats with the students and tour of the facilities. I absolutely did not like the way the teachers I spoke to or listened to fudged the basic questions such as 1) does a 'scholarship' guarantee a place and 2) where does the money come from. I think I know the answer to both 1) no and 2) standard budget repackaged I feel starting a relationship with parents by fudging the answers to basic questions is a concerning beginning. I would like to have an honest relationship with the school my children go to and not be treated like a 'consumer' That said I would probably be interested despite the above concerns

any child trick or treating when it is not halloween will get short shrift round here please don't take your kids out on Saturday - it is not a weekend event. and only visit houses who have a lit pumpkin or decoration outside

Thank you Taper - I look forward to reading through that and the referenced materials. May I reiterate what I said at 11.05am yesterday I am inclined to disbelieve in the concept of vaccine overload despite personal experience. On quick scanning of the abstract though it does reinforce my belief that there should be an individualistic approach to vaccination, specifically those with family histories of auto-immune disorders and other contradicted conditions - I still don't understand why brief family histories cannot be used in the vaccination programme and choice allowed (apart from the budgetary concerns of course) . I do feel this individualised is important both in terms of inferred immunity and short and long-term side effects to vaccines.

I'm begining to sound like I'm anti-MMR and vaccination ... may I stress that I am not.

taper Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Curmudgeon - There is clear evidence that the > hypothesis of vaccine overload in relation to > current vacccination programmes is not supported > by any of the available evidence. What do you > mean by "either way"? You're not looking for > evidence to prove a negative are you? As for > choice, you have it: mmr on the NHS, single > vaccines privately or don't vaccinate. > where is this evidence though - point me in the direction where studies have been done, rather than statistical analysis as I have issues with the level of reporting in this country (I have huge doubts over the validity of many epidemiological studies as should anybody who has ever worked with statistics) I think the 'choice' of going private is open to the few only and it should be open to all

That does not seem conclusive though Taper - when you drill down there is no evidence either way. There is a survey of medical records for hospital admission due to bacterial infections within 3 months of MMR. And yet hospitals and medics do not report on these admissions as a matter of course. I do find it interesting that there is recognition of parental and societal concerns and even that many physicians delay MMR and DTP amidst concerns of overload. Surely this would lead to real research programmes (not just epidemiological reviews) and the promotion of choice. I also note the reduction in confered immunity by batching vaccines together. In 10 years there remains a widespread, if incorrect, belief that there is something to be concerned about. If our aim is to have herd immunity then why is there no choice - surely by promoting choice we would increase vaccination rates so the question is not "should I vaccinate" but "which method of vaccination am I happiest with"

I have not seen any reliable evidence for either side of the vaccine overload argument and would love someone to point me in the direction. I am inclined to not believe in it despite personal experience of my youngest developing pneumonia 10 days post first MMR. The A&E Paeds were more interested in saying its nothing to do with MMR (which I hadn't mooted) than actually treating her at one point - and that made me furious at the time I recall.

No point, it's a ubiquitous comment that is oft spouted in these types of discussions. But that doesn't mean that it is based in fact. It is mere supposition IMHO. People I know who chose to sepvax continued throughout the course. I do not know of anybody who didn't finish the course. For complete disclosure: my eldest had sepvax as primary innoculations as a toddler and MMR as booster at school age due to our researched concern over a genetic predisposition to auto-immune disorders. My youngest did not have thimerosal in primary jabs due to a 6 week 'discussion' (argument) with GP and had MMR as a toddler and pre-schooler. I have no axe to grind about the whole debate.

EDmummy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Spin? Not sure about that but the BUPA health > information website states the following reasons > for the questions of single jab effectiveness. > > - Children would need three times as many > injections (six in total), which is more > unpleasant because of the pain from each jab and > six episodes of possible side-effects. Yes but they are spaced out and some parents believe that the pain from a jab is minor in the scheme of things. > - It could mean that fewer children have all the > necessary vaccinations, increasing the levels of > measles, mumps and rubella in the UK. Only true if we're talking about a society where there isn't a large level of concern over a particular vaccination. Promoting vacciation and offering choice is not an extreme solution IMO > - There may be more delay before being completely > vaccinated, leaving children at risk of infection > from the diseases for longer. True there is a delay but it is preferable to have maximum vaccination and if this is a route that parents choose then they are still allowing their children to be part of the herd immunity, enabling those children who cannot be vaccinated to benefit. > - Single vaccines aren't licensed in the UK, and > have not passed the UK's safety and effectiveness > testing. Single vaccinations used to be licensed in the UK and they are licenced in many European countries. It does not mean they are not safe and effective just because there has been a decision taken to no longer allow choice. As a final point I think it is patronising to imply that parents who choose / chose separate vaccinations would not complete the course (I know this wasn't your comment though). Parents who choose this route have generally come to an educated decision and have made a commitment.

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think way back when the MMR controversy broke > Mercury was used in the MMR preservative > formulation used in the UK. It isn't anymore but I > can't say I'd like the idea of any child being > injected with any amount of Mercury. You're thinking of the primary jabs that are given to babies at 2, 3 and 4 months old. Before summer 2004, they contained Thimerosal as a preservative - basically mercury. There was no reason for it and in fact the DTP given at 3 years old as a booster did not contain this preservative. There was a research study (on mice) that showed that some had difficulty excreting the mercury and that when not excreted normally it moved to the brain. There was some theorising that the DTaP was the problem and that when children reached 13 months + and had additional vaccinations it could be a tipping point. The government announced in 2004 that they were replacing DTaP with the new 5 in 1 which doesn't include thimerosal - it was an almost instant replacement. However even the week before this announcement the NHS line was that DTP was totally safe for 2 month old babies and there was no need for concern.

I have no issue with MMR and no allegiance to Wakefield but I hate this confusion of medical research and spin doctoring. There is a vaccine damage compensation act (I think it ws 1979 in UK IIRC) There are cases of children being damaged by vaccines, including MMR and receiving compensation in UK, US and elsewhere There are some children who are more susceptible to vaccine damage than others Multiple vaccinations are offered because of cost benefit this does not mean they are the best route for all Vaccinations do not confer the lifelong immunity that many people seem to assume

Jamma Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Single jabs aren't as effective because people > tend to miss appointments and not get the whole > course. That's the evidence I think you're mixing up evidence with spin

Moos Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Am I overly caught up in my own importance here? > I'm starting to think I must be. ummmmmmm

There is no such thing as a 100% safe vaccine that is safe for 100% of the population There would be no furore and higher uptake if the whole fiasco had been handled differently by the government and they had offered parents the choice. And my children had MMR.